NuWho Model Effects.

[TedShatner10]

Looking through the DVD extras for the first season of NuWho, I notice there are a lot more model effects to depict the locations and action. While the Dalek Emperor and decoy Slitheen craft were the better known model effects, the production crew used models for depicting other things (like the RAF barrage balloons and the Thames lair housing the Nestine Consciousness). But in the Tennant years CGI seemed to have taken over completely, for better or worse, with The Mill animation house getting a Bafta, but while I was impressed by the Pyrophile creatures and the Library planet in S4, I felt The Mill's output looked quite rushed in "The Stolen Earth/Journey's End".

While CGI is certainly here to stay and the CGI effects for NuWho is a vast improvement over most of the original Doctor Who's special effects and some of the effects seen in the earlier seasons of The Next Generation, do you think the NuWho production crew are going back to more model work under Steven Moffat?

 

[Bones2]

Doubt it.

 

[Venardhi]

Generally I expect, and hope, they go with whatever medium will be best for that particular effect without sacrificing budget that can be used better elsewhere. These days, that is generally going to be CGI since the model houses are fewer and farther between and making just about anything in a physical medium is going to have a higher price tag.

 

[TedShatner10]

Model effects have not been phased out completely and while I see CGI as very important, Avatar never looked right to me and comes across as quite lifeless and bland

 

[Bones2]

Model effects have not been phased out completely and while I see CGI as very important, Avatar never looked right to me and comes across as quite lifeless and bland

You'd need more than a few models to put that film right.

 

[23skidoo]

Model effects have not been phased out completely and while I see CGI as very important, Avatar never looked right to me and comes across as quite lifeless and bland

You'd need more than a few models to put that film right.

Hear, hear.

But in terms of use of CGI on Doctor Who, the fact remains that for television CGI is simply faster and cheaper than taking the time out to build models. I agree it hasn't been phased out completely. You can still find vinyl records of new releases too. And it's been pointed out that for some releases the vinyl still sounds better than the CDs. And the pretty pictures that come with the record are bigger than the CDs (and the non-existent art with downloads). But they're more expensive and harder to come across now because so few people buy them. Same goes for traditional model making for SFX vs CG.

Alex

 

[Stevil2001]

It's worth pointing out that the BBC closed its in-house visual effects department-- who did the model work for Series One-- in 2005.

 

[Starkers]

I'm going to sound like a Luddite here, but I miss modelwork, no matter how good CGI gets I'm always aware it's computer generated, models have a solidity that computerised images don't. I'm not saying I hate Cg, but on Trek models of starships always seemed to look more real to me.

 

[Bones2]

I agree, for the most part. I like a nice model.

 

[Starkers]

I think it depends what you want. For giant space battles ala DS9 cgi is the way to go, but for a long grand sweeping beauty shot of a starship give me a well lit model any day!

 

[Bones2]

Yeah, I mean imagine if that bit in TMP going around the Enterprise for 5 minutes was CGI. It'd be intolerable.

It was intolerable anyway, but still...

 

[Starkers]

You kidding? I love that five minues. The effects the music, all magnigicent!

 

[DimesDan]

I'm going to sound like a Luddite here, but I miss modelwork, no matter how good CGI gets I'm always aware it's computer generated, models have a solidity that computerised images don't. I'm not saying I hate Cg, but on Trek models of starships always seemed to look more real to me.

I agree, for the most part. I like a nice model.

As much as it pains me, I have to agree with Bones on this, yes CGI is good and you can create some pretty impressive things, but take Star Trek for example, the Enterprise didn't look real and exist there and then where as in the earlier Trek films, the Enterprise being a model did look as if it did.

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

And it was followed up by almost ten mintues of doing the same thing around V'Ger. It makes a huge difference if it's an absolutely beautiful ship to look at in the first place.

It's true that we haven't had anything as neat as a big honking spaceship crashing into Big Ben since the first series, but it's a simple question of cost. Ironically when CGI used to be the thing we'd look for as a symbol of a show's budgetary ability to do cool stuff, the physical models were good enough to the point that we wouldn't notice them. Now that CGI is cheaper than making models, we still notice CGI more than a big model...

Mark

 

[TedShatner10]

The CGI creatures are a bit hit and miss; the Krillitine and the Pyrophiles are the best CGI aliens so-far, but the CGI Monster Gatiss in "The Lazuras Experiment" was a bit mediocre actually. However in the most critically successful Moffat and Davies penned stories, the most memorable creatures were not depicted with CGI at all -they were a small boy in a gas mask, a glaring woman and banging noises, living statue performers, and a green rubber puppet behind a sheet of glass.

 

[AdmiralGarak]

For giant space battles ala DS9 cgi is the way to go,

Actually DS9 filmed several of its giant space battles with models. (And when they didn't have enough of those... Christmas ornaments.)

 

[Jim Steele]

^

As I understand it, they used a mix of models and CGI until they went almost completely CGI during the war arc.

But the point is you really can't do massive 100+ ship space battles with models on a TV budget. It's just not practical. Hence why 99% of TNG's model shots were boring-as-shit 2 ships facing each other and doing NOTHING.

 

[AdmiralGarak]

Not early in the series, before CGI became prevalent. At the time, only B5 was using CGI in that manner.

The Klingon attack on the station in The Way of the Warrior, for example, was filmed only with models. (And, as mentioned before, several Hallmark Bird-of-Prey ornaments.) The only place where CGI was used in lieu of models was the deployment of the station's weapons pods.

That's not saying that DS9 and Doctor Who have remotely similar budgetary considerations. Just that giant model-based space battles were indeed achieved on DS9 without any CGI ships.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

I like Doctor Who and I like theater, so as far as I'm concerned, anything that drives the narrative forward is good enough. Whether it's expensive CGI, carefully made models, sock puppets or just a guy making scary shadows with a flashlight and his left hand, it's fine with me.

 

[Flyboy]

Hailing Admiral Garak. Do you know for a fact that some filming was done with Hallmark STAR TREK ornaments? I'm the guy who sculpted all but one of them and I always suspected that ornaments found their way into some of the scenes. One that I was pretty sure of was the mobile hanging over an infant's crib in Voyager. It looked like they just spray painted the Voyager and Klingon BOP ornaments pink and blue for the shot.