Kirk and Hannah are confronted by the Mongol Saints, "the most violent gang in the Bay Area", who attempt to take Hannah. Kirk has her beamed to safety then whups the (human) gangsters.
NuTrek "Starfleet Academy" - The Delta Anomaly
- Thread starter Mr Silver
- Start date
Because the people who made Trek XI have so much control over a line of young adult novels
Really at this point the Trek XI bashing is getting pathetic, I mean do you REALLY have to do this IN EVERY DISCUSSION of ANYTHING related to the movie?
So, in other words, they're not a rape gang per se, but, rather, a common street gang?
Because the people who made Trek XI have so much control over a line of young adult novels
Really at this point the Trek XI bashing is getting pathetic, I mean do you REALLY have to do this IN EVERY DISCUSSION of ANYTHING related to the movie?
That's true, Bob. You're borderline trolling at this point, though I do realize that's the moderator's call and not my own.
So it's not rape gangs at all...
Like I said, I've not read the full novel, only pieces and the purpose of this thread was to see what everyone's thoughts were on NuTrek's take on the Borg. So you have a violent gang? That's not exactly much different from "Cupcake's" gang of Starfleet Cadets who decided to beat up Kirk for being rude.
Like I said, I've not read the full novel, only pieces and the purpose of this thread was to see what everyone's thoughts were on NuTrek's take on the Borg. So you have a violent gang? That's not exactly much different from "Cupcake's" gang of Starfleet Cadets who decided to beat up Kirk for being rude.
No, there's a big difference between a well-known, organized street gang and a group of rowdy cadets getting into a bar fight. One is a symptom of fundamental economic inequality and oppression; the other is a symptom of a few guys having too many beers.
ETA:
I don't agree with having street gangs on 23rd Century Earth. But let's bear in mind that it's not like JJ Abrams personally reviewed the book and inserted them in there. It's the author's attempt to make STAR TREK more relate-able to a modern urban audience, for whom street gangs are generally seen as just a part of life rather than a sign of something fundamentally wrong with the structures of society. This is thoughtlessness, not a deliberate pissing on STAR TREK's optimism for the future. We can criticize it without condemning the entire book or the entire rebooted STAR TREK project.
Ok, that actually isn't as bad then. I mean, I was thinking something along the lines of the guys from Tasha's home world.
Young adults don't band together and get into violence on a persistent basis unless there's a socioeconomic cause for it. In a truly egalitarian society, it would never happen because nothing would ever prompt it in the first place; they'd be too busy going to college or advancing their careers and building families, and generally participating in society.
Street gangs do not just happen. They are a function of oppressive socioeconomic conditions.
ETA:
And that's to say nothing of the fact that, in an idealistic STAR TREK future, the idea that a street gang would even be able to function without attracting police attention and being thwarted before they could even hurt anyone is fairly absurd. It's not like there are any ghettos in the world of STAR TREK, after all; police are there to enforce the law and protect the innocent, not to enforce the power of wealthy ethnic elites over the poor and ethnic minorities like they are today. There wouldn't BE any sort of lower class areas for a street gang to hide itself in, because there wouldn't be any classes at all; everyone is equal.
Then there must be another reason for it other than socioeconomic and/or class issues? It is in the novel and it cannot be taken out of the novel, it can only be ignored by the reader. The fact still remains however that there is a violent gang in 23rd Century San Francisco.
This whole debate has derailed the thread, can we go back to talking about the novel and its idea of the Borg?
This whole debate has derailed the thread, can we go back to talking about the novel and its idea of the Borg?
I second that motion.
Well, I haven't read the book, but consider that the line quoted above says they're "the most violent gang in the Bay area." That's an ambiguous description, because it's defining their violence purely in relative terms. Maybe "the most violent gang" is one that engages in petty vandalism and occasional harrassment and robbery, because there are no really violent gangs by our standards. Maybe their definition of "gang" is different from ours -- maybe they're so comparatively peaceful that what would be just a bunch of rowdy kids by our standards would be seen as a violent gang by their standards.
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Not only is that quite a stretch, considering that apparently these guys have moved up from TPing the prinicpal's house to rape, but it's also pretty clearly stated, by singling out these guys as "the most violent," that there are lots of these gangs running around, which only makes things worse.
Hasn't the mention of rape been discounted, or at least called into question?
Technically, the use of the superlative "most" only proves that there are more than two gangs, not necessarily "lots of" them.
Here's what the book says (p.143)....
Maybe after knifing Jim, they were just gonna take turns holding her hand.
Maybe after knifing Jim, they were just gonna take turns holding her hand.
The quotes from the book regarding it are four posts up. I'm pretty sure that's the entirety of it.
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