• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Numbered planets: what method?

Side topic and note: I don't give a damn what anyone has done planet classifications, there are NINE planets in our system. Pluto IS a planet.

No, there are not. And Pluto IS NOT a planet. Only because it was that way when you were a child and you prefer it that way, doesn't change the official classification.
Sorry, Pluto is a Dwarf Planet, and velociraptors had feathers.
It's also always so funny that people who defend Pluto's former status as a planet never do the same for Ceres, who was known as a planet for decades before being re-classified as more asteroids. Or the other Dwarf Planets like Eris and the huge number of other Kuiper Belt objects. Or the asteroids. Either all of them are planets, or Pluto is not.

So apply the question to Ceres, Eris, and our other little balls of rock which were never granted planet status in the first place.

Ceres WAS considered a planet when it was discovered. As were Vespa, Pallas, and a large number of other asteroids in the asteroid belt, until they decided they were their own thing.
Eris, Make-Make and those other Kuiper Belt objects that are now classified as Dwarf Planets alongside Pluto and Ceres were also briefly considered planets before their new category was created.
 
I don't give a fat flying rat's fanny whether you regard Pluto as a planet, a dwarf planet, an elf planet, a goblin planet, an asteroid, a minor deity, or a piece of frozen cheese. I'm just wondering how bodies that have been designated as dwarf planets (and moons for that matter) are scientifically designated.
 
Without looking it up, my understanding is dwarf planets have enough gravity to make them round, but not enough to clear their orbit of other bodies. Asteroids don't have enough gravity to become round. And moons orbit a larger body. And Charon/Pluto are technically a double dwarf planet because the center of the orbit is above Pluto's surface, if I remember correctly.
 
No, there are not. And Pluto IS NOT a planet. Only because it was that way when you were a child and you prefer it that way, doesn't change the official classification.
Sorry, Pluto is a Dwarf Planet, and velociraptors had feathers.
It's also always so funny that people who defend Pluto's former status as a planet never do the same for Ceres, who was known as a planet for decades before being re-classified as more asteroids. Or the other Dwarf Planets like Eris and the huge number of other Kuiper Belt objects. Or the asteroids. Either all of them are planets, or Pluto is not.



Ceres WAS considered a planet when it was discovered. As were Vespa, Pallas, and a large number of other asteroids in the asteroid belt, until they decided they were their own thing.
Eris, Make-Make and those other Kuiper Belt objects that are now classified as Dwarf Planets alongside Pluto and Ceres were also briefly considered planets before their new category was created.

Ceres was discovered 200 years ago, and hasn't been called a planet since before the Civil War. And isn't Ceres' orbit right after Mars? So obviously not a planet.

I'm sticking to our system having 9 planets, and we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.
 
I believe they screwed up numbering planets in the Ceti Alpha system once...
As well as getting the name backwards. It should be Alpha Ceti, i.e., the brightest star in the constellation Cetus (the Whale).

. . . Just like how everyone calls Earth Earth, not Sol III.
In their respective native languages, everybody probably calls their own planet "Earth." That is, the word for the soil under one's feet is also used for the planet.

Side topic and note: I don't give a damn what anyone has done planet classifications, there are NINE planets in our system. Pluto IS a planet.

I grew up on that knowledge, and it is staying that way. How dare people having the balls to downgrade a planet?
Oh, for Christ's sake. Pluto wasn't "downgraded"; it was simply reclassified. It's not like it was busted down in rank or anything.
 
Last edited:
And what happens if they "reclassify" Mercury because it doesn't have an atmosphere? Or Venus because it lacks a moon? Or Saturn, because technically it's about the density of a milkshake? Why do they all get to be planets and Pluto doesn't?
 
Except it's not always like that. Can't think of any off the top of my head, but I know they haven't always done it "right"

Kiley 279?

Question is, what would dwarf planets like Pluto and Ceres be?

If you are talking in a Star Trek context, I think the only clue we have is from "Metamorphosis", where the planetoid where they found Zephram Cochrane was designated Gamma Canaris N.

And what happens if they "reclassify" Mercury because it doesn't have an atmosphere? Or Venus because it lacks a moon? Or Saturn, because technically it's about the density of a milkshake?

Then we would adapt to the new classifications, because science is all about our understanding changing as new knowledge comes to light, rather than dogmatically clinging to outdated ideas?
 
Reclassification and redefinition of terms as knowledge advances happen frequently within science. It's just that there's usually less of an overlap with public consciousness about it.

I don't even think that the scientific committee that decided this cared too much whether the public (i.e. the rest of the world) would keep calling Pluto a planet or not- they were probably just concerned with getting their scientific definitions set up in such a way that they would be most useful for future scientific work. To which they had every right.
 
Archer IV! Somehow one of "two planets" named for Jonathan Archer, when it should be the sun named for him with a minimum of 4 planets.

The bio screen glimpsed (and legible if you pause) in "In a Mirror, Darkly" makes it worse, making Archer IV a planet orbiting the star 61 Ursae Majoris.
 
Archer IV! Somehow one of "two planets" named for Jonathan Archer, when it should be the sun named for him with a minimum of 4 planets.

The bio screen glimpsed (and legible if you pause) in "In a Mirror, Darkly" makes it worse, making Archer IV a planet orbiting the star 61 Ursae Majoris.

That annoys me so much!
 
If we end up meeting aliens who reside on Pluto and they refer to their chunk of rock as a planet...would that matter in the slightest?
 
I've never known Trek to use any numbering convention other than numbering planets outward from the star. This was a convention in science fiction long before Trek, inspired by the old system of numbering Jupiter's known satellites outward from the planet.


"Prime" may be an informal but widely-used designation.

I believe it originated with Giedi Prime in Dune. I believe it's generally used to refer to the dominant or capital planet in an interstellar empire or civilization. Instead of indicating physical position around a star, it indicates a planet's dominant position in a political hierarchy.


Regarding letters, I thought that a binary star system's components were designated A and B.

Yes, and the first planet discovered around, say, George B would be George Bb, the next would be George Bc, etc. (The body itself is "a," so its first companion is "b.")


Side topic and note: I don't give a damn what anyone has done planet classifications, there are NINE planets in our system. Pluto IS a planet.

If Pluto is a planet, then so are Ceres, Eris, Haumea, Makemake, etc. Either there are eight planets, or there are dozens of planets. The whole reason the redesignation happened was because we discovered that Pluto was not unique, but was one of an entire class of similar bodies, so there is no logical reason to give it a different status from the others of its kind. Either none of them are planets or they all are. That's the part that always gets lost in the public controversy -- that it was never just about Pluto. But that is by far the most important part, the only reason the redesignation happened at all.

It's bizarre how many people suddenly discovered they cared desperately about Pluto in 2006, when nobody'd given it much thought before. It was an afterthought, a footnote, an also-ran. Its biggest claim to fame was sharing the name of Mickey Mouse's dog. But try to change something people never cared about, and suddenly they get fanatical about keeping it the way it was, because nothing terrifies adults so much as having to learn something new.

The fact is, astronomers had never liked calling Pluto a planet, since it was too different from the four terrestrial and four giant planets. It was just what they called it for lack of a better category, but it was recognized that it was a poor fit. Some astronomers declined to call it a planet even before the 2006 redefinition (for instance, the Internet Stellar Database no later than 2000). The discovery that Pluto was merely the first of dozens, possibly hundreds of dwarf planets -- the harbinger of its own distinctive category, rather than just a footnote among the planets -- was a promotion, not a demotion. Suddenly we knew where Pluto really belonged. It's like taking a wrestler who was a failure in the middleweight class and reassigning them to the featherweight class where they should've been all along, allowing them to excel at last. It's an improvement.

But the idea that there are nine planets is as dead as the idea that there were seven planets once Neptune was discovered. Either there are eight planets and hundreds of dwarf planets, or there are hundreds of planets, most of which are dwarfs. Those are the only realistic options. Personally, I favor the latter. Dwarf stars are still considered stars, dwarf galaxies are still considered galaxies, so it's contradictory for dwarf planets not to be counted as planets. As I see it, Sol System has four giant planets (two gas, two ice), four terrestrial planets, and an as yet uncounted number of dwarf planets. None of them is "superior" or "inferior" based on their size, because science is not a bloody pumpkin-growing contest, it's a search for understanding.
 
I believe it originated with Giedi Prime in Dune. I believe it's generally used to refer to the dominant or capital planet in an interstellar empire or civilization. Instead of indicating physical position around a star, it indicates a planet's dominant position in a political hierarchy.
.
Exactly, I was thinking the same, but I couldn't remember whether the Prime in Giedi Prime referred to its physical position in the system or to its importance, since I never was a Dune fan.


If Pluto is a planet, then so are Ceres, Eris, Haumea, Makemake, etc. Either there are eight planets, or there are dozens of planets. The whole reason the redesignation happened was because we discovered that Pluto was not unique, but was one of an entire class of similar bodies, so there is no logical reason to give it a different status from the others of its kind. Either none of them are planets or they all are. That's the part that always gets lost in the public controversy -- that it was never just about Pluto. But that is by far the most important part, the only reason the redesignation happened at all.
.

^ This! And people are only upset about Pluto because it injures their nostalgia. Which...really has no room in science. Might as well re-classify Fungi as Plants again because that's the way Elementary School tends to present the tree of life.
 
Side topic and note: I don't give a damn what anyone has done planet classifications, there are NINE planets in our system. Pluto IS a planet.

I grew up on that knowledge, and it is staying that way. How dare people having the balls to downgrade a planet?
astronomy as a science does not really go by the "good enough for granddad" principle. When Ceres was first discovered, it was thought by many to be a planet, too. If you want to include every round body orbiting the sun, it's going to get very complicated, so add Sedna, Eris, Quaoar, etc. (and who knows what, once the Oort cloud objects one day are imaged).

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
but it led to a cool love song, anyway.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top