Spoilers Now that we've gotten Batman v Superman, what are your thoughts on the DCEU?

[Grendelsbayne]

For me, the DCEU at this point feels fairly similar to the new Trek universe. There are some good points and some actually great casting, but the stories are irritatingly flawed and disappointing. My main bright spot there is that this is only based on 2 movies, one of those two actually did have an interesting story (even though it was a little buried under plotting issues), and both of them have been made by pretty much the exact same creative team. (Wow - that actually applies pretty much equally to both universes...)

There is at least still hope that the DCEU outside of Snyder might be stronger than this. In that regard, Suicide Squad and Wonder Woman are going to be make or break movies for me. If they hit the mark (and SS certainly looks to be on the right track), I'll give the rest of the universe a chance. If not, I'll probably wait for Netflix/Library copies barring incredible reviews.

Although an Affleck solo movie and the Aquaman movie will at least be tempting, solely out of curiousity - the idea of an underwater superhero movie is so different to everything else we've seen I can't help but be intrigued, especially since Momoa looks absolutely awesome and I'd love to see what Affleck can do with his character when he isn't being shoehorned into shallow, completely unexplained character arcs. Although I really hope future movies have a better solution for Batman's action scenes. Some of the ones in this movie were awesome, but others made him look unbelievably clumsy and slow.

Also, even if SS and WW are great and JL turns out to be a real improvement, I'll probably still be skeptical of some of the movies they've got lined up. The Flash was originally the one movie I was looking forward to because I've really loved the CW version (never read the character's comics), but the BvS scenes instantly turned me off on that one. There's something very screwy and irritating about that guy. Cyborg is a character I've never really been interested in - I hope it's awesome, especially because we've been waiting too long for really awesome minority characters, but I'm pretty much 100% neutral there. Green Lantern is one I actually really like, but after the last time, I'm skeptical for that as well. And including a character like Shazam is just a real wtf moment for me.

 

[JD]

So is Shazam part of the DCEU then? I know at one point it was going to released by New Line and was separate from the DCEU.

 

[eyeresist]

So is Shazam part of the DCEU then? I know at one point it was going to released by New Line and was separate from the DCEU.

My understanding is that Shazam will be presented as a DC film, but will have a light bright tone and not cross over with the JLA-verse. That might change to some extent, of course, if the movie is a hit, but I can't imagine him in a movie with Bats (tonally too different) or Supes (they'd cancel each other out).

 

[dahj]

So is Shazam part of the DCEU then? I know at one point it was going to released by New Line and was separate from the DCEU.

New Line is producing the film, WB will release it, and yes, it is a part of DCEU.

 

[kirk55555]

I'm sure "Shazam" will be in the DCEU eventually. The New 52 version fits perfectly with Zach Snyder's vision. He's a gigantic greedy asshole who likes power and doesn't really like saving people. He asked for payment from the first person he saved. He's a fairly whiny, dark-ish jerk with a HUGE superiority complex. Basically, he's Snyder's dream character (the only problem being that his Mom's name isn't Martha). Maybe if they were making a Captain Marvel movie and ignored the current comics, you could get a cool, light hearted adventure with a great character. But, in a world where the crappy New 52 is the basis of every DC movie, you're not getting that. You're getting a character who doesn't want to be a hero. He wants to beat stuff up and use his power to get things (or at least get famous for being a "hero"). So, that's what you'll get in the movie, and I'm sure Otto Binder, Bill Parker and CC Beck will continue spinning in their graves.

On the "plus" side, someone like, I don't know, Hulk Hogan playing Dr. Sivana (the New 52 Dr. sivana was basically a bald pro wrestler when it comes to physique) will be an interesting match with The Rock as Black Adam. Its actually the role Bautista was born to play, if he wasn't already Drax in the MCU.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

I find it interesting that the idea that fiction cannot inspire is being promoted on a Star Trek board of all things, considering how many engineers and scientists were inspired by Star Trek to enter their fields.

Consider the obsession with it inspiring people seems to be one of the things that contributed to it starting to suck, that might have something to do with it.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

How did the obsession contribute to the sucking?

Because it got up its own ass with pretentiousness, and started to forget it was supposed to be an entertaining show. See TNG season 1 and TMP.

 

[Showdown]

I have some advise to Zack Snyder and the people in charge of the DCEU. This is just from a fan, so take it for what it's worth. While I think Man of Steel and Batman v Superman are great movies, there are a lot of people who do not like how dark and gritty the DCEU is. Most likely there is talk about how to lighten things up a little, and many of my ideas might be talked about. BTW, I will be saying things most people already knows, for the few who may not know.

Don't go 180 degrees and copy Marvel straight up. That would be too jarring. Do it naturally, maybe keep the tone somewhere between MCU and the current DCEU. That will be a good balance. Like how Superman's fight with Zod set the stage for Batman's anger toward Superman, that lead to their fight, let BvS lead to a brighter, lighter DCEU.

Before Superman, the world is dangerous, gloomy, and cynical. Then came an alien who uses his great power to help people. At first it is treated with equal parts hopeful and suspicion. Detractors will question what selfish ends our alien is doing or fear what they don't understand. And through it all, Superman never stops doing what he feels is right, no matter the criticisms. He will feel alone, make mistakes, he will falter, and there are days when he wants to hang up his cape, but he kept going. At the end he gave his all and sacrifice himself for a world that fears him. That will be turning point for the world. They will realize he is not a god, but deep down, a person that is as mortal as they are. It will be his humanity, not his powers, that makes him Superman. Even Batman, who wanted to kill him, changed. After Superman's resurrection, much more people will trust him. Other super powered people, inspired by Superman, will follow his footsteps, come out of the shadows, into the light, and join him on his quest to make the world a better place. With much of the world trusting him and friends that understand him, he will be a little happier and smile sometimes.

He shouldn't be the Superman just yet. He should feel sadness in loss and be tempted to darkness by evil. There's so much more to learn, like trusting other heroes, how to be a leader on the Justice League, or mentor to Supergirl. The son became the father. Let him grow through out the movies. Show us his full journey from lost soul to the World's Greatest Champion.

In the Justice League movies, maybe Flash, Cyborg, or Green Lantern should be a little comedic, making a few jokes, to bring some fun into the film. There will be conflict, but the cast should have good chemistry.

For Batman, he was in a dark place in BvS. After his parents were murdered, he vowed vengeance and grew up to be a vigilante. After, I assume Robin died, Batman became damaged and cruel. His Batman became his inner demons personified. At the brink of turning into a monster, Superman turns him back with a simple plea for another human's life that made Batman realize what he has became. After Superman's death, while not as dark, he should still be a little tortured. There are still more tragedies in his life. The tone shouldn't be Adam West's Batman. Fans will want to see what happened to Robin or one of the Robins. Batman had multiple Robins, with the first, Dick Greyson, who is the "good son", who learns from his "father, " Batman. The second, Jason Todd, is the "bad son" who rebels against his "father". Like the animated Under the Red Hood, Joker killed Jason Todd, but he came back for revenge. I would love to see the first Greyson vs Todd. Former Robin vs Former Robin. Batman should reflect on Jason's death, his greatest failure, and how that almost turned him into a monster, and tried to prevent Jason from becoming a monster. Maybe talk about what happened to Batgirl in the Killing Joke. Throw Joker and Harley into the mix to add some humor, and you may have yourself another blockbuster.

That's all for now. I may post up more ideas later. I would like to see others' ideas of where the DCEU is going and where it should go.

 

[Dream]

Green Lantern, Man of Steel, and Batman V Superman.

Three strikes and its out!

 

[theenglish]

I'm sure "Shazam" will be in the DCEU eventually. The New 52 version fits perfectly with Zach Snyder's vision. He's a gigantic greedy asshole who likes power and doesn't really like saving people. He asked for payment from the first person he saved. He's a fairly whiny, dark-ish jerk with a HUGE superiority complex. Basically, he's Snyder's dream character (the only problem being that his Mom's name isn't Martha). Maybe if they were making a Captain Marvel movie and ignored the current comics, you could get a cool, light hearted adventure with a great character. But, in a world where the crappy New 52 is the basis of every DC movie, you're not getting that. You're getting a character who doesn't want to be a hero. He wants to beat stuff up and use his power to get things (or at least get famous for being a "hero"). So, that's what you'll get in the movie, and I'm sure Otto Binder, Bill Parker and CC Beck will continue spinning in their graves.

I have to say this is a little unfair to the character as it only reflects the very beginning of his new 52 origin story, and his personality at that one point in time. His character arc has moved forward greatly since that one comic story back in 2012.

 

[kirk55555]

I have to say this is a little unfair to the character as it only reflects the very beginning of his new 52 origin story, and his personality at that one point in time. His character arc has moved forward greatly since that one comic story back in 2012.

I've read every issue of Justice League, the main book he's in, and it hasn't. At all. He's the same character he was in the Justice League back up stories and the few other solo things he's done. A greedy, generically drama filled teen character. He sure as hell isn't the orphan with a heart of gold who is given great power because a Wizard can read the heroism and goodness in him and knows he's worthy. That was Captain Marvel, the character that was memorable and popular enough to survive from 1940 to 2011. This crap imitation is stuck as a background character, which is probably why his narcissism and greed isn't on display as much, because he doesn't get really any solo stuff anymore. "Shazam" is just angsty, a-hole teen #34567, with an extra dose of unheroic attitude. He's tied with Starfire as the worst New 52 reboot, with both being done by idiots who didn't understand why the original characters were popular.

 

[theenglish]

I agree that the new incarnation is disappointing. But he's not written as greedy and self-centered either. The thing the writers have forgotten is that he is supposed to have the wisdom of Solomon, but instead he retains a teenager's tendency to act without thinking or say what's on his mind rather than first considering his words. This is certainly to the detriment of the character, I think, but hardly makes him as evil as you portray. Perhaps you can give some specific examples to help jog my memory?

 

[kirk55555]

I agree that the new incarnation is disappointing. But he's not written as greedy and self-centered either. The thing the writers have forgotten is that he is supposed to have the wisdom of Solomon, but instead he retains a teenager's tendency to act without thinking or say what's on his mind rather than first considering his words. This is certainly to the detriment of the character, I think, but hardly makes him as evil as you portray. Perhaps you can give some specific examples to help jog my memory?

Well, in his origin he saves a woman, and immediately tries to get her to pay up for her rescue. This is the first "heroic" act he does as "Shazam". He's also extremely unpleasant to everyone when he's not transformed, far past normal teenage stuff. As a Justice League member, he's constantly whining and complaining. Its hard to get more specific because I'm honestly trying to ignore him nowadays when I read Justice League, to the point that I don't even remember any of his fight with Black Adam (outside of the fact they fought and Adam died), or the reasons the stupid Wizard had as to why he gave the little a-hole powers in the first place.

They have (thankfully) not given "Shazam" a solo story since 2012 I think, so most of what you get is just him being a whiny, unheroic guy in Justice League, which sticks with me better then the horrible solo stuff he got 3-4 years ago. Outside of his Justice LEague stuff, I remember him being an a-hole to everyone pre-powers (totally going against the concept of him being a good, generally nice person despite his situation as an orphan), him trying to use his powers for personal gain (like trying to charge for his first rescue), and him confronting Black Adam. He hasn't gotten much, and none of it was good. Some of it was obviously more forgettable than others, but I don't really have the desire to go back and reread the worst things ever written involving a version of my favorite superhero to get more examples.

 

[theenglish]

Thanks. That's pretty much what I said.

 

[Set Harth]

Green Lantern, Man of Steel, and Batman V Superman.

Three strikes and its out!

Swing and a miss.