Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by Nardpuncher, Aug 13, 2008.

  1. number6

    number6 Vice Admiral

    I suppose that's possible.

    OTOH the writer of that episode says that Trip died and that Archer then starts to think about whether his sacrifice was "worth it" when talking about his time of exploration in StarFleet. IMO, that episode fails primarily by not emphasizing that enough in the scenes that follow.

    I do suppose that you could use your "Holodeck/Section 31" scenario to justify the lack of rank promotions for the crew over 10 years to those who take issue.
    It wasn't a great episode, but it doesn't mean that Trip isn't dead.
    People want to "pretend" that it "never happened" simply because they hated the episode. But there it is. On TV, on DVD, on Video, on Download. The episode got made and for whatever intentional reasons on behalf of the writers and producers of the episode, Trip dies. That's the end of it. The novels aren't part of their story. The novels are part of someone else's version of this story.
  2. pookha

    pookha Admiral Admiral

    Dec 26, 2002
    there are enough contradictions with pegasus alone to make one wonder about tatv.
    much less ferengi on board during a classified mission.
    the thing is a mess in so many ways.
  3. Lindley

    Lindley Moderator with a Soul Premium Member

    Nov 30, 2001
    Bonney Lake, WA
    Their story sucks. Not just with Trip's death, I really don't care about that very much. Just all around, it was a really bad episode.

    The novels tell an alternate story which fits perfectly with what was seen on-screen, but is far more compelling. Therefore, despite its non-canon status, I choose the better interpretation.

    If this had been done with the finale of another show, I might agree with you: Go with the original creator's intent. But Enterprise was stumbling from one misstep to another through most of its run, and the ending was just the crowning example. I have far more respect for the good people at Pocket Books, who have someone managed to pull a worthwhile tale out of that mess, than for the people who caused the mess in the first place.
  4. number6

    number6 Vice Admiral

    ^^ And you're welcome to feel that way.

    Your opinion doesn't change anything. The episode was written, Trip is dead and that's the end of Star Trek as produced by the people who own the brand. The novels aren't part of that story.
  5. Lindley

    Lindley Moderator with a Soul Premium Member

    Nov 30, 2001
    Bonney Lake, WA
    Trip is a fictional character. As such, his status depends entirely on your perspective. If you haven't seen the entire show, he's "alive". If you've seen the last episode, you assume he's "dead". If you've also read The Good That Men Do, you know he's "alive" despite his apparent death.

    You're perfectly welcome to keep your perspective confined to the TV series, but insisting yours is the only valid one is silly.

    Sorry for being so persistent about this. It's just that written Trek has been superior to aired Trek for quite a few years now (at least on average), and it's annoying to see it dismissed out of hand. I'm not talking about canonicity issues---I'll leave that for the similar Star Wars debate---but just the value of the stories themselves. You can't tell me Elias Vaughn is a worthless character just because he's never shown up on-screen, or that the Founders haven't mysteriously disappeared, or that the "Conspiracy" parasites aren't distant cousins of the Trill, or that Andorians don't have four genders, just because none of that was on-screen. It's real if you enjoy the stories, and that's good enough.
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2008
  6. Philo

    Philo Commodore Commodore

    Nov 23, 2005
    Frankly, I find the entire argument tired and the worst part about the whole Not.Dead phenomenon. Each side has merit based on what they wish to believe is 'real'. Being hard nosed about it is silly but I find the entire premise of the argument silly.:p
  7. number6

    number6 Vice Admiral

    I don't understand why you need to be persistent about it.
    If you enjoy the novels, good for you. The writers of the series obviously have a different approach and since it is what aired, that is what the writers had in mind for the story they wanted to tell. Insisting otherwise because you didn't like it is pretty silly. Star Wars doesn't enter into it. I haven't read those novels either. Lucas told his story and it's on the screen. If fans want to argue otherwise it's their choice but it doesn't change the story the producers and writers wanted to tell onscreen.
  8. Sector 7

    Sector 7 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Mar 27, 2008
    Rural North Carolina
    Denial is the first stage of grief. How long before the Trip fans move on to the second stage?
  9. number6

    number6 Vice Admiral

    Second Stage: Novels
    Third Stage: Fan Fiction
    Fourth Stage: Slash
    Fifth Stage: Blog
    Sixth Stage: Myspace
    Seventh Stage: Acceptance
  10. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

    May 10, 2005
    The visitor's bullpen
    They are now.

    There is no more aired Enterprise. There probably never will be. The story continues *only* in the novels. And since the novels are not likely to contradict themselves, then they become the only story that matters now.

    This goes for any Trek series, of course, not just ENT. (TOS would appear to be the exception, since the new film takes place during that series' timeframe.)
  11. cultcross

    cultcross #NotAllMods Moderator

    Jul 27, 2001
    This other Eden
    No really strong opinion on forum memes - like em or ignore em. But I do have an opinion on putting punctuation before words.