Not good enough!

[RobertScorpio]

In the great TNG episode Yesterday's Enterprise, Picard gives the impression to Captain Garrett that the war with the Klingons is doing badly. Defeat is almost certain.

Do you think Picard was being truthful? Do you really think, with what we know about the Klingons, post-Kronos events of TUC? Or was he just trying to get her to go back due to his conversation with Guinan? What do you think? Was Picard playing God with their fates to save his??

Rob
Scorpio

 

[Alrik]

I don't think so. Riker made it pretty clear that he was happy to have one more Starship to add to the fight. In addition to that, there were a couple of other lines that hinted that the Federation was taking a but kicking. Its been a while since I have seen that ep, so I don't remember the spacific quotes, but I do remember the tone in which the were said.

 

[RobertScorpio]

I don't think so. Riker made it pretty clear that he was happy to have one more Starship to add to the fight. In addition to that, there were a couple of other lines that hinted that the Federation was taking a but kicking. Its been a while since I have seen that ep, so I don't remember the spacific quotes, but I do remember the tone in which the were said.

The situation did seem grim...but post-TUC, when the Klingons were supposedly weakened, makes you wonder if SPOCK was...a sucker..and maybe Cartright/Kirk were right..LET THEM DIE...

Rob
Scorpio

 

[Alrik]

The situation did seem grim...but post-TUC, when the Klingons were supposedly weakened, makes you wonder if SPOCK was...a sucker..and maybe Cartright/Kirk were right..LET THEM DIE...

Rob
Scorpio

LMFAO. Maybe.


But if you think about it, the Klingon Empire would have had plenty of time to rebuild. TUC was Nemoy's play on the Cold War. So using that as a measuring stick, here's how the numbers work. In '89 the Berlin Wall fell and in '91 the Cold War officially ended. The USSR was left in shambles and all seemed like it was over once and for all. Fast forward to '08 and things are beginning to look a lot like they did in the 80's. That only took Russia 17 years to recover their might.

If Praxis exploded in 2293 and the E-C is lost defending Narendra III in 2344, that leaves 51 years for them to use the aid of the Federation to find a new power source, as well as to re-arm themselves.

So Gorkon probably was shooting straight with Spock at the time. Maybe that KLINGON BITCH was good at playing both sides of the fence and rebuilt her father's Empire from behind the scenes.

 

[Finn]

Perhaps if Gorkon wasn't killed in TUC, the whole Klingon situtation in Yesterday's Enterprise wouldn't have happened....

 

[RobertScorpio]

The situation did seem grim...but post-TUC, when the Klingons were supposedly weakened, makes you wonder if SPOCK was...a sucker..and maybe Cartright/Kirk were right..LET THEM DIE...

Rob
Scorpio

LMFAO. Maybe.


But if you think about it, the Klingon Empire would have had plenty of time to rebuild. TUC was Nemoy's play on the Cold War. So using that as a measuring stick, here's how the numbers work. In '89 the Berlin Wall fell and in '91 the Cold War officially ended. The USSR was left in shambles and all seemed like it was over once and for all. Fast forward to '08 and things are beginning to look a lot like they did in the 80's. That only took Russia 17 years to recover their might.

If Praxis exploded in 2293 and the E-C is lost defending Narendra III in 2344, that leaves 51 years for them to use the aid of the Federation to find a new power source, as well as to re-arm themselves.

So Gorkon probably was shooting straight with Spock at the time. Maybe that KLINGON BITCH was good at playing both sides of the fence and rebuilt her father's Empire from behind the scenes.

They really need a book series, and I don't mean just a SULU series, to explain the politics of the Federation/Klingons (and dissapearence of the romulans) in that area between TUC and TNG...or have they written such books???

Paging Mr. Cox and Christopher...your efforts are needed!!!

Rob

 

[JNG]

Do you think Picard was being truthful?

I have absolutely no reason to think otherwise. I'm not too surprised the Klingons could go toe-to-toe with the Federation, only that something must have happened to make it clear that the Romulans weren't going to swoop in and prey upon the weakened victor afterwards. If the Klingons considered that and acted anyway, they probably shouldn't have; I had always imagined those Roms were a major factor in keeping the other two powers from one another's throats during those years.

Quite a timeline that must have been. Nice place to visit, but...

 

[Red Ranger]

People,

It's intriguing to think that Picard lied to put an end to a miserable war that had killed many billions of people. It would be similar to Sisko lying to the Romulans to get them to fight against the Dominion.

It would certainly be out of character for the Picard we know, but perhaps decades of war changed Picard to a man who'd grab at any straw, no matter how tenous, to end a hated war. After all, he must've started out as an idealistic Starfleet officer, drawn to seek out new life, rather than originally as a soldier in a hopeless war.

And if the war was going badly for the Federation, that Picard figured on the maxim, "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few." The few in this case were Garrett and the crew of the Enterprise-C, while the many were the billions of people killed, and uncounted more to be killed, in the war.

What I found interesting is there isn't even a line to indicate what happened to the Romulans in that timeline after Narendra III. Perhaps there was first a war between the Klingons and Romulans, a war which the Klingons won. Like in the alternate future of All Good Things, the Klingons take over the Romulan Empire, and with their bloodlust stoked, they decide to attack the Federation!

Red Ranger

 

[-Brett-]

They really need a book series, and I don't mean just a SULU series, to explain the politics of the Federation/Klingons (and dissapearence of the romulans) in that area between TUC and TNG...or have they written such books???

Paging Mr. Cox and Christopher...your efforts are needed!!!

Rob

The Lost Era series. Particularly Serpents Among the Ruins, by David R George III and The Art of the Impossible, by Kieth RA DeCandido.

 

[Alrik]

They really need a book series, and I don't mean just a SULU series, to explain the politics of the Federation/Klingons (and dissapearence of the romulans) in that area between TUC and TNG...or have they written such books???

Paging Mr. Cox and Christopher...your efforts are needed!!!

Rob

The problem is, after the B&B treatment of Generations it would pretty much have to be a Sulu/Excelsior based adventure. Soon after, Kirk was lost to the Nexus and Scotty retired and was thought lost on the Jenolan. So unless it becomes a political intriuge based series centerered around Spock, you would pretty much have to base it on an entirely new cast of charactors. (But I guess Lower Decks did work.)

Red Ranger

Very thought provoking, but the Picard of Yesterdays Enterprise seemed to stay largely in charactor with the known Picard. While possible that he might be capable of doing something to that magnitude, it grates against everything that the TNG Picard would seem to stand for. The Picard that developed throughout TNG seemed to be more the type that would give up what he knew as reality (the one) to allow the normal flow of space/time (the many) to resume. The one that seemed to have travelled down the alternate path that you suggest is Riker. He seemed quite comfortable in allowing the timeline to change in hopes of bettering his chances. Not trying to poke holes, just pointing out that one of the better Ep's of the seven year run was pretty well thought out.

 

[WillsBabe]

They really need a book series, and I don't mean just a SULU series,

But George is so good at getting Sulu stuff done. But I agree, it would be an intriguing read. Sounds like the kind of thing a fanfic writer could do well.

 

[Darth Picardous]

My mind is a bit old and its a while since I saw this episode, but I think I remember on the screens on the Enterprise the star maps showing Klingon and Federation held territory, and the Klingon symbols had surrounded the Federation symbols. So perhaps Picard wasn't lying. Can someone check?????

 

[RobertScorpio]

Do you think Picard was being truthful?

I have absolutely no reason to think otherwise. I'm not too surprised the Klingons could go toe-to-toe with the Federation, only that something must have happened to make it clear that the Romulans weren't going to swoop in and prey upon the weakened victor afterwards. If the Klingons considered that and acted anyway, they probably shouldn't have; I had always imagined those Roms were a major factor in keeping the other two powers from one another's throats during those years.

Quite a timeline that must have been. Nice place to visit, but...

Romulans as peace keepers until the war broke out? Interesting thought. Makes you indeed wonder where the Romulans were...we know that in TNG time they became reclusive...

It was suggested that the Klingons took over the Romulan empire in a first war, and then came after the Feds...I don't know. I mean, look at Hitler. If he had over taken Britan, and then beat the Russians, would he have had the resources to beat America? I mean, there were only so many German soldiers....and the Klingons, in this case, would have to have a lot of ships and men to hold not only the Romulan empire, but the Federation as well..not to mention the Cardassians...Breen...Gorn..Tholian...

Perhaps the Klingons had some super weapon. Well, its fun to think about....I'd buy a 'canonized' version of that alternate time line if it were done as a series of books, by one of our author friends...

Rob

 

[Anticitizen]

I find it more likely that the reason the Klingons bounced to their feet so quickly after TUC is because Romulans were sending secret aid to the Klingons the entire time. The Romulans wouldn't want to see a Klingon-Federation alliance.

 

[RobertScorpio]

I find it more likely that the reason the Klingons bounced to their feet so quickly after TUC is because Romulans were sending secret aid to the Klingons the entire time. The Romulans wouldn't want to see a Klingon-Federation alliance.

maybe that is where the Durass/Romulan connection began...Work and Durass's father were involved with each other even back then, I guess...would be interesting to revisit Nerenda 3 as its own set aside story....could explain much..

Rob

 

[Alrik]

I find it more likely that the reason the Klingons bounced to their feet so quickly after TUC is because Romulans were sending secret aid to the Klingons the entire time. The Romulans wouldn't want to see a Klingon-Federation alliance.

That sounds like it might be very likely. There are two quotes from the Ep The Neutral Zone that make you kind of go "hmm".

Worf:
Captain, these are Romulans -- they
are without honor. They killed
my parents in an attack on
Khitomer at a time when they were
supposed to be our allies. They
believe humans and Klingons are
a waste of skin, so inferior as
to be unworthy of any
consideration.

Tebok:
Captain Picard, because your
actions are those of a thoughtful
man who is neither rash nor easily
provoked, I tell you this. More
urgent matters have caused our
absence, and witness the results.
Outposts destroyed, evidence of
the Federation everywhere. We
have been negligent, but no more.

So that leads to the question.....just what was so urgent? The other question would have to be, what lead to the Romulan attacks on Narendra III and then again on Khitomer? Inquirering minds.........

 

[RobertScorpio]

I find it more likely that the reason the Klingons bounced to their feet so quickly after TUC is because Romulans were sending secret aid to the Klingons the entire time. The Romulans wouldn't want to see a Klingon-Federation alliance.

That sounds like it might be very likely. There are two quotes from the Ep The Neutral Zone that make you kind of go "hmm".

Worf:
Captain, these are Romulans -- they
are without honor. They killed
my parents in an attack on
Khitomer at a time when they were
supposed to be our allies. They
believe humans and Klingons are
a waste of skin, so inferior as
to be unworthy of any
consideration.

Tebok:
Captain Picard, because your
actions are those of a thoughtful
man who is neither rash nor easily
provoked, I tell you this. More
urgent matters have caused our
absence, and witness the results.
Outposts destroyed, evidence of
the Federation everywhere. We
have been negligent, but no more.

So that leads to the question.....just what was so urgent? The other question would have to be, what lead to the Romulan attacks on Narendra III and then again on Khitomer? Inquirering minds.........

Someone posted earlier in this thread that there are books that answer these questions...do they really? Or are there just throw away lines...I want books AIMED exactly at what you posted. Oh..PAGING GREG COX...paging CHRISTOPHER and KRD...(i think thats his initials)...

Rob

 

[HRHTheKING]

I'm just surprised that Picard said that the Federation would have to surrender.

Personally, I'd prefer to fight to the death, if not by open warfare, then terrorism if necessary.

 

[RobertScorpio]

I'm just surprised that Picard said that the Federation would have to surrender.

Personally, I'd prefer to fight to the death, if not by open warfare, then terrorism if necessary.

You were suprised he said that? Picard? Surrender? Not me...

Rob

 

[HRHTheKING]

Hmmm...

That's something to ponder.

1- Had a chance to kill the Crystalline Entity but didn't.
2- Had a chance to blitz the Borg with Hugh but didn't.
3- Was talking about surrendering to Klingon scum.


Yes, he was a coward.