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[{ Emilia }]

I also like how "I was speaking from experience" matters when his six months totally equal the years I've been driving in Italy and Germany.

Plus Southern Italy is not the same as Italy.

I hear people in Mississippi don't drive like people in NYC.

 

[locutus101]

Statistically driving in Italy is just as safe as driving in just about every other Western country.
When it comes to Southern Italy I have noticed that stuff just works differently there. Instead of blindly following all traffic rules, people there tend to actually look and be aware of their surroundings and the traffic. So when a Northern European (or even a Northern Italian like myself) comes to Southern Italy they find it stressful since we're more used to just following the rules and switching our brains off.
A friend of mine keeps joking that a German will just crash into another car that steals their right of way instead of braking, and then they'll yell: YOU WERE WRONG! Because rules are all that matters.
A Southern Italian looks and brakes.

Having said that: I prefer driving in Northern Italy. It's just that statistically claiming Italians are bad drivers is pretty ignorant and anecdotal evidence is just that. There is absolutely no evidence that supports the idea and it just shows how willing you are to embrace stereotypes based on some anecdotal experience.

Leave it to Northern Italians to make fun of the South.

Forgive me for saying so but saying that people that don't follow the traffic rules are more aware of what's going on, than just actionable road hogs, is simply incredibly biased on your part. You remind me of these abused spouses who say that whatever their husband/wife did to them, "they meant well".

 

[{ Emilia }]

Forgive me for saying so but saying that people that don't follow the traffic rules are more aware of what's going on, than just actionable road hogs, is simply incredibly biased on your part. You remind me of these abused spouses who say that whatever their conjoint did to them, "they meant well".

You excel in writing inappropriate and offensive things.
I don't forgive you, no. Your posts are often unpleasant, hostile and arrogant. Comparing me to a victim of domestic violence is just another low in your long list of lows.

There's a big cultural difference between Northern and Southern Italy. And that leads to people from the North finding traffic in the South stressful. I do prefer the Northern way, I said that.

 

[locutus101]

Sure, it's the fault of everyone else.

You know you should really take the time to actually read a post before answering to it.

 

[locutus101]

You excel in writing inappropriate and offensive things.
I don't forgive you, no. Your posts are often unpleasant, hostile and arrogant. Comparing me to a victim of domestic violence is just another low in your long list of lows.

There's a big cultural difference between Northern and Southern Italy. And that leads to people from the North finding traffic in the South stressful. I do prefer the Northern way, I said that.

I am as soft spoken, as can be. If I were more of a diplomat, I'd be lying. Is that what I am expected to do, lie?

 

[Gov Kodos]

You know you should really take the time to actually read a post before answering to it.

You should consider calling someone who brings evidence to a discourse an abused spouse for the temerity of disagreeing with you rather ignorant. Your anecdotes are not proof of anything other than you were involved in traffic incidents.

 

[locutus101]

Of course. Most everybody is if you ask them.

I'm a fantastic driver.

I'll have to remember that. No one is ever taken at their word here unless they are agreeing with others.

 

[{ Emilia }]

You should consider calling someone who brings evidence to a discourse an abused spouse for the temerity of disagreeing with you rather ignorant. Your anecdotes are not proof of anything other than you were involved in traffic incidents.

I'm not even sure why he's digging his heels in. Statistics clearly prove that driving in Italy is safe, in fact safer than many other countries. "Italians are bad drivers" is an ignorant stereotype.
Anecdotal evidence from one region he has spent six months in says absolutely nothing about "Italians in general". Heck, it varies so much even in other countries. People in Berlin have a different way of driving than people in Cologne.
Yet, he made a general statement and that statement just looks very stupid once the facts come in. He could've decided to own up to that but digging his heels in is more fun I suppose.

It's tedious how much people insist on their anecdotal evidence as valuable objective experience. You could also say he had a string of bad luck in Italy since statistics don't support his argument but of course he wouldn't accept that.

I am as soft spoken, as can be. If I were more of a diplomat, I'd be lying. Is that what I am expected to do, lie?

I don't think it's hard to address and criticize people's posts (even harshly like I did with your asinine post) without making ad hominem attacks. Yet it seems you have to be reminded of that rule frequently.

 

[locutus101]

You should consider calling someone who brings evidence to a discourse an abused spouse for the temerity of disagreeing with you rather ignorant. Your anecdotes are not proof of anything other than you were involved in traffic incidents.

Once again you didn't read what I said, you're already answered to strawmen a couple of itmes. I said that calling someone that breaks the rules other than a rule breaker is incredibly biased. And I'd like to see someone make a case like that in court. I'd be laughing all the way to the bank on that one.

 

[locutus101]

...
I don't think it's hard to address and criticize people's posts (even harshly like I did with your asinine post) without making ad hominem attacks. Yet it seems you have to be reminded of that rule frequently.

I didn't make any Ad Hominem. I just commented on what you said not you personally. Maybe you don't know what Ad Hominem means.

 

[{ Emilia }]

Once again you didn't read what I said, you're already answered to strawmen a couple of itmes. I said that calling someone that breaks the rules other than a rule breaker is incredibly biased. And I'd like to see someone make a case like that in court. I'd be laughing all the way to the bank on that one.

I did say they break the rules. And statistically the fact that they drive based on awareness instead of rules seems to work relatively well for them. I don't think it's the right way and it surely stresses me out at times when I'm there.

I also wouldn't be surprised if road fatality statistics for Southern Italy are worse than they are for the North. But that doesn't really help your generalized asinine statement "Italians are bad drivers" either.

 

[{ Emilia }]

I didn't make any Ad Hominem. I just commented on what you said not you personally. Maybe you don't know what Ad Hominem means.

And of course you had to bring the person into it by comparing me to an abused spouse. Your posts are full of these excursions in bad taste.

As a reminder: Repeatedly claiming people fail to read your posts properly and they don't know certain words is also pretty inflammatory. We are perfectly able to read and we all understand the terms you use. We just disagree with the nonsense you write.

 

[Gov Kodos]

Once again you didn't read what I said, you're already answered to strawmen a couple of itmes. I said that calling someone that breaks the rules other than a rule breaker is incredibly biased. And I'd like to see someone make a case like that in court. I'd be laughing all the way to the bank on that one.

You claimed your anecdotal evidence proved Italians were bad drivers. Statistics done by professionals proved otherwise.

I didn't make any Ad Hominem. I just commented on what you said not you personally. Maybe you don't know what Ad Hominem means.

This doesn't help at all.

 

[{ Emilia }]

You claimed your anecdotal evidence proved Italians were bad drivers. Statistics done by professionals proved otherwise.

And it could've ended here, right?
What a missed opportunity!

 

[locutus101]

...
I also wouldn't be surprised if road fatality statistics for Southern Italy are worse than they are for the North. But that doesn't really help your generalized asinine statement "Italians are bad drivers" either.

In case you were wondering. The part I bolded is an Ad Hominem.

Physician heal thyself.

 

[{ Emilia }]

In case you were wondering. The part I bolded is an Ad Hominem.

Physician heal thyself.

No. Calling your statement asinine is criticizing your statement, not you. That is a simple rule on this site. Attack the post, not the poster. I encourage you to internalize that.

 

[Gov Kodos]

In case you were wondering. The part I bolded is an Ad Hominem.

Physician heal thyself.

She described your post. You described her as an abused spouse. Only your post is the ad hominem.

 

[locutus101]

...


This doesn't help at all.

I'd be surprised if anything did.

 

[locutus101]

No. Calling your statement asinine is criticizing your statement, not you. That is a simple rule on this site. Attack the post, not the poster. I encourage you to internalize that.

I never said anything about you personally.

Quote me on that.

 

[Gov Kodos]

I'd be surprised if anything did.

Once you see your anecdotal experience is not true for all Italian drivers as shown by the statistics everything will become clear.