Nostalga Talk: The Five Doctors

[Starkers]

No, but then I don't see why we have to have an eleven Doctor's special. Do as they've done on Who and Sarah Jane in the past, show us flashbacks. Plus there really is a limit to how much plot you could ever give 11 Doctors, plus companions. The Five Doctors just about gives them all something to do (but really it's the Four Doctors so they don't even have to split the story five ways). People talk about a season long arc but I think they're living in fantasy land if they think the BBC would do that. It might be a very intriguing fantasy land, but fantasy nontheless

 

[starsuperion]

actually what I was thinking was some minor touches on the older class, with either CGI or Impersonators, and then focus on the latter 8-11 as the main characters of the 2 part special..

but yea, I am not a proponent of the season long episode arc.. though I do think that making mechanical dummies, and using CGI and action doubles to recreate the missing scenes from the classic troughton era could work if done right and with the right amount of creative camera shots..I don't think it would be creepy if it was done so that it looked real..

they would be set to the actor's voice, and would be just another medium like animation is to tell the story, only in this case the BBC and the fan get's an almost realistic portrayal..and it costs the BBC less because the CGI is limited to the faces of the characters only..

 

[Whofan]

Not sure if anybody's mentioned this, but the Autons were also going to be in the special. Basically the Third Doctor and Sarah discover part of a department store that has been brought to the zone, and the mannequins of course turn out to be autons. However for some reason the sequence was cut or perhaps not even filmed, although it was scripted and I'm pretty sure it's in the novel.


The Raston warrior robot was cool, although it's design is a bit too similar to the other robots from the Davison era (Featureless head, spandex body etc). Anybody know if it showed up in any novels or audio dramas?


The special actually was originally going to be written by Robert Holmes, and would have the Cybermen capture the Doctors and try to find out how to time travel from their brains. This concept of course made it's way into Holmes's Two Doctors.


As for Tom, he was originally going to be the Doctor who went to Gallifrey's capital and discovered Borusa's plot. Terrance's reasoning I believe was that the Fourth Doctor was a 'darker' Doctor than Davison and would be tempted by the immortality.

 

[starsuperion]

Not sure if anybody's mentioned this, but the Autons were also going to be in the special. Basically the Third Doctor and Sarah discover part of a department store that has been brought to the zone, and the mannequins of course turn out to be autons. However for some reason the sequence was cut or perhaps not even filmed, although it was scripted and I'm pretty sure it's in the novel.


The Raston warrior robot was cool, although it's design is a bit too similar to the other robots from the Davison era (Featureless head, spandex body etc). Anybody know if it showed up in any novels or audio dramas?


The special actually was originally going to be written by Robert Holmes, and would have the Cybermen capture the Doctors and try to find out how to time travel from their brains. This concept of course made it's way into Holmes's Two Doctors.


As for Tom, he was originally going to be the Doctor who went to Gallifrey's capital and discovered Borusa's plot. Terrance's reasoning I believe was that the Fourth Doctor was a 'darker' Doctor than Davison and would be tempted by the immortality.

actually I believe the Raston warrior robot has been in several doctor who media releases outside of the classic series.. just google the raston warrior robot for the link to the wiki.. it is pretty interesting and makes me wonder who the raston corporation was, and how advanced was their military technology..

that bit about the 4th doctor being the one on gallifrey and him being darker then all the others is intriguing... it certainly makes me wish that Tom had signed on for that special..

 

[Dukhat]

I was only about 12 or 13 when I first saw The Five Doctors. Up to that point, my local public television station had only been showing Tom Baker episodes, so I had never seen any other Doctor play the role (even Davison). So at the time, I was going under some misapprehensions:

1. I thought Richard Hurndall was the actual First Doctor, not knowing that William Hartnell was dead at the time. Only much later, when PBS began broadcasting the older Doctor episodes, did I realize the truth. I also realized that Hurndall's portrayal really did not do justice to Hartnell, and was really only a pale imitation of him.

2. I also thought Tom Baker was actually in the episode, and not stock footage from another episode I didn't even know about. Having been the only Doctor I'd seen previously (and hence my favorite), I was upset that Tom didn't have more to do

3. Despite the above, I really liked the episode and was amazed at how much they were able to pull off with the talent they possessed at the time. The only issue I had was that now that each of the first five Doctors knows what the other five look like (with the possible exception of Tom Baker), then why does each Doctor act like he isn't going to know what he looks like after he regenerates?

 

[starsuperion]

I was only about 12 or 13 when I first saw The Five Doctors. Up to that point, my local public television station had only been showing Tom Baker episodes, so I had never seen any other Doctor play the role (even Davison). So at the time, I was going under some misapprehensions:

1. I thought Richard Hurndall was the actual First Doctor, not knowing that William Hartnell was dead at the time. Only much later, when PBS began broadcasting the older Doctor episodes, did I realize the truth. I also realized that Hurndall's portrayal really did not do justice to Hartnell, and was really only a pale imitation of him.

I agree, Hurndall's version was more cranky an didn't capture Hartnell's fun.. mispronouncing Chesterson for Ian's name was meant as a term of endearment to him, as much as an annoyance, and Hurndall's cranky antics with the actress that portrayed Teagan was more like annoyance then playful crankiness, and where was the old slyness that Hartnell possessed?? I just think that if they get another impersonator, they should find someone who can widdle off a good hartnell, and make it believeable..

2. I also thought Tom Baker was actually in the episode, and not stock footage from another episode I didn't even know about. Having been the only Doctor I'd seen previously (and hence my favorite), I was upset that Tom didn't have more to do

When I first saw that special I thought the same, though I did wonder if maybe they filmed the Shada scenes and somehow Baker got sick and so that is why he didn't get more of a role.. but the truth behind it was far more interesting as I later found out..

3. Despite the above, I really liked the episode and was amazed at how much they were able to pull off with the talent they possessed at the time. The only issue I had was that now that each of the first five Doctors knows what the other five look like (with the possible exception of Tom Baker), then why does each Doctor act like he isn't going to know what he looks like after he regenerates?

evidently all the previous doctor's when returned to their time stream ceased to remember what they had just been through, with the exception of the 5TH doctor that is..so it makes sense that the others would still be surprised to see who they regenerated into..

 

[Dukhat]

I agree, Hurndall's version was more cranky an didn't capture Hartnell's fun.. mispronouncing Chesterson for Ian's name was meant as a term of endearment to him, as much as an annoyance, and Hurndall's cranky antics with the actress that portrayed Teagan was more like annoyance then playful crankiness, and where was the old slyness that Hartnell possessed?? I just think that if they get another impersonator, they should find someone who can widdle off a good hartnell, and make it believeable..

Have you ever listened to Big Finish's Unbound audios with Geoffrey Bayldon playing the First Doctor? Now that's a guy who can pull off a convincing Hartnell (at least in audio form anyway).

 

[DWF]

Okay this week I thought I would pick a serial from the classics and just begin a conversation with like minded fans..

I just watched the special edition of the Five Doctors, and I gotta say, their choices for revisions were a bit odd.. the laser like thunder bolts could have been redone, but they didn't touch them?? overall it isn't bad, just kinda strange is all..

I absolutely love this serial!

The special wasn't a serial though it was the closest thing to the Christmas specials we get nowadays. And it was aired here the United Stated first, the first Dr. Who story to air here before it aired in Britain.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

I agree, Hurndall's version was more cranky an didn't capture Hartnell's fun.. mispronouncing Chesterson for Ian's name was meant as a term of endearment to him, as much as an annoyance, and Hurndall's cranky antics with the actress that portrayed Teagan was more like annoyance then playful crankiness, and where was the old slyness that Hartnell possessed?? I just think that if they get another impersonator, they should find someone who can widdle off a good hartnell, and make it believeable..

Have you ever listened to Big Finish's Unbound audios with Geoffrey Bayldon playing the First Doctor? Now that's a guy who can pull off a convincing Hartnell (at least in audio form anyway).

"You've done the TARDIS up a bit....I don't like it."

 

[Sindatur]

I agree, Hurndall's version was more cranky an didn't capture Hartnell's fun.. mispronouncing Chesterson for Ian's name was meant as a term of endearment to him, as much as an annoyance, and Hurndall's cranky antics with the actress that portrayed Teagan was more like annoyance then playful crankiness, and where was the old slyness that Hartnell possessed?? I just think that if they get another impersonator, they should find someone who can widdle off a good hartnell, and make it believeable..

Have you ever listened to Big Finish's Unbound audios with Geoffrey Bayldon playing the First Doctor? Now that's a guy who can pull off a convincing Hartnell (at least in audio form anyway).

[Shakes head] Yes, I was thinking the very same thing, wondering if he could look the part. His portrayal was solid.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

OK. Thanks to all this talk I went and ordered the Five Doctors 25th anniversary edition DVD.

It's just a shame they did everything on video-tape, or it could be remastered real nice to blu-ray.

 

[starsuperion]

OK. Thanks to all this talk I went and ordered the Five Doctors 25th anniversary edition DVD.

It's just a shame they did everything on video-tape, or it could be remastered real nice to blu-ray.

huh? they can't do a Bluray of the 25th special? that sucks! yeah I had the same idea and ordered my Five Doctors 25th anniversary edition as well...

it's a classic to be sure.. where else can I find my favourite doctors and most companions from the early years together all at once..

Brilliant!

I agree, Hurndall's version was more cranky an didn't capture Hartnell's fun.. mispronouncing Chesterson for Ian's name was meant as a term of endearment to him, as much as an annoyance, and Hurndall's cranky antics with the actress that portrayed Teagan was more like annoyance then playful crankiness, and where was the old slyness that Hartnell possessed?? I just think that if they get another impersonator, they should find someone who can widdle off a good hartnell, and make it believeable..

Have you ever listened to Big Finish's Unbound audios with Geoffrey Bayldon playing the First Doctor? Now that's a guy who can pull off a convincing Hartnell (at least in audio form anyway).

[Shakes head] Yes, I was thinking the very same thing, wondering if he could look the part. His portrayal was solid.

okay now you guys got me interested, and I have say your going to bankrupt me aren't you?? I buy the DVD's which aren't cheap.. and now, I have to sample the big finish audios for sheer curiosity..

as a first time Big Finish Audio story to purchase, which should be the best one to buy? The 8th Doctor stories with Romana? the 6TH Doctor Stories?

Why hasn't the BBC put the audios series to fantastic animations yet??

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

OK. Thanks to all this talk I went and ordered the Five Doctors 25th anniversary edition DVD.

It's just a shame they did everything on video-tape, or it could be remastered real nice to blu-ray.

huh? they can't do a Bluray of the 25th special? that sucks! yeah I had the same idea and ordered my Five Doctors 25th anniversary edition as well...

They could, but if what I've read in the TNG forum is true, it would either take a very long time or it would get very minimal results, due to the masters being on video-tape instead of film.

I don't understand any of it myself, but if true, there's a lot of classic Who that would have to be remastered/converted. I wonder if they've even considered it.

The DVD is still going to look great on the blu-ray player & big TV, so I'm looking forward to next weekend anyway.

 

[Cutter John]

Ah I love the 25th Anniversry edition! So many cool extras on it. Including the 'hidden' David Tennant commentary.

 

[Whofan]

They can probably release the TV movie on blu-ray, but yeah, even some of the new series (Before series 5 and the 2009 specials, which are HD) would have problems going HD, if the transfer of The Next Doctor is any indication.

 

[FalTorPan]

One thing though... how does Susan know what cybermen are?? wasn't she gone before the tenth planet? unless she witnessed them in the invasion era??

The first Doctor was already somewhat familiar with the Cybermen in "The Tenth Planet." It's possible that he and Susan had previously encountered them, or at least heard of them in passing.

I love "The Five Doctors." I was introduced to Doctor Who through PBS, beginning with the Tom Baker era and continuing to the Peter Davison era, so "The Five Doctors" was my first exposure to the first three Doctors. I've since watched many stories starring Hartnell, Troughton and Pertwee. Hurndall's first Doctor is not a very good recreation of Hartnell's portrayal, but it serves well enough for this story.

 

[Whofan]

In the Moonbase, which takes place around 2030 or so, the base controller says that Cybermen existed and that everybody knows that. In context of the serial it's probably referring to the Tenth Planet. But I suppose one could say it was Canary Wharf or something.


According to Captain Jack in one of those new series short monster documentaries, the Cyberwars (Mentioned in Revenge of the Cybermen and Earthshock, mainly) still happen in earth's future, as well.

Then again WHO's continuity/canon is as elastic as they come, really. It's like the Simpsons, the continuity is inconsistent and makes no sense, but it's enjoyable anyway

 

[Dukhat]

Why hasn't the BBC put the audios series to fantastic animations yet??

Well, because that would defeat the purpose of them being in audio format

Seriously, audios are much more popular in the UK than they are in the US (not saying they're not popular here, as I can attest by working in a recording studio for books on tape myself), and there's a certain attitude of quaintness about them that doesn't translate to a visual format. They were meant to only be heard and not seen, leaving the visualizations up to the listeners' imagination.

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

Honestly, I have to admit that "The Five Doctors" loses its potency with me with multiple viewings but it's still a lot of fun!

Anything with Patrick Troughton is automatically a win. His bickering with the Brigadier and the 3rd Doctor is absoutely priceless.

It's the 2nd best Cybermen story ever (after "The Invasion").

It's Anthony Ainley's best appearance as the Master.

I love Sarah Jane's reaction when the 3rd Doctor tries to explain why he isn't the 4th Doctor yet:
3rd Doctor: "I suppose I did, but I haven't yet."
Sarah Jane: "Oh, I see... No, I don't. Never mind."

It's a testament to the power of the 4th Doctor that I feel an overwhelming rush of nostalgia even during his all-too-brief stock-footage cameo.

While I used to think he was just fine in the role, after watching a lot more classic Hartnell stories, I must admit that Hurdnall is only a barely passable stand-in. His performance needs more senile giggling.

I may just be in a foul mood from all of the other rubbish Davison stories I've waded through recently, but I'm now tempted to dock a point from "The Five Doctors" for the mere presence of Turlough. Even though he's not an insufferable pussy in this story like he usually is, I still kinda can't stand the sight of him.

If it were, how many historians would have been hanging around to spectate the Crucification, for example? Crowds of historians with futuristic camera phones all streaming the event back live to their home time periods boggles the mind

Not to mention all of the vampires who would take a peek just so they could say they were there.

Not sure if anybody's mentioned this, but the Autons were also going to be in the special. Basically the Third Doctor and Sarah discover part of a department store that has been brought to the zone, and the mannequins of course turn out to be autons. However for some reason the sequence was cut or perhaps not even filmed, although it was scripted and I'm pretty sure it's in the novel.

They couldn't afford to shoot it. I don't know if they couldn't afford to acquire enough usable Auton masks or if they couldn't afford to pay for the rights to even show them in the first place. Probably both.

okay now you guys got me interested, and I have say your going to bankrupt me aren't you?? I buy the DVD's which aren't cheap.. and now, I have to sample the big finish audios for sheer curiosity..

as a first time Big Finish Audio story to purchase, which should be the best one to buy? The 8th Doctor stories with Romana? the 6TH Doctor Stories?

I'm quite fond of the Divergent Universe stories with the 8th Doctor & Charley. But that's a longer, more involved arc. For a good, solid stand-alone audio, I would recommend "Colditz" with the 7th Doctor & Ace (plus David Tennant).

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

While I used to think he was just fine in the role, after watching a lot more classic Hartnell stories, I must admit that Hurdnall is only a barely passable stand-in. His performance needs more senile giggling.

The thing is, in 1985, those of us watching (most of us anyway) were only barely aware of any Doctor before John Pertwee, and my PBS station had only recently (then) started showing any of the 3rd Doctor's serials.

So Hurndall's portrayal seemed just fine, from what I knew of Hartnell's time as the Doctor, which was basically nothing outside of hearing he was crotchety. And Hurndall certainly looked the part.

I'm not certain when Pertwee was first shown in the 80's over here, all I know is, we saw Tom Baker for years & years then some Davison, then more Tom Baker.