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Nonsensical courses of action…

Would Kirk plowing ahead into the barrier count as a nonsensical course of action? I always forgive it because the episode is so good and it needs to happen, but looking at the barrier makes one wonder why he doesn't fly over or under it. Non canon explanations aside.
 
Would Kirk plowing ahead into the barrier count as a nonsensical course of action? I always forgive it because the episode is so good and it needs to happen, but looking at the barrier makes one wonder why he doesn't fly over or under it. Non canon explanations aside.

You can't take visual effects literally. I mean, TOS had starscapes with moving stars even when the ship was at impulse, and the stars moved far faster than parallax would allow even at high warp. Then there's the way the ship visibly follows a curving path when orbiting a planet, which is nonsense. I mean, on a planet's surface, the curvature is so wide that the ground appears flat to the eye. An orbit hundreds of kilometers up would be a much larger ellipse and thus would look far flatter, so the ship should appear to fly perfectly straight.

And later Trek perpetuates the problem of depicting things in space as 2-dimensional when they should be 3-dimensional. The example that annoys me most is the "ripple" effect of the Praxis explosion in ST 6, because so many other productions adopted it later on.

But if you want an explanation for the "ribbon" appearance, maybe it's an illusion due to the way the barrier polarizes light or something. By analogy, think about looking at a reflective surface that's curved into a cylinder. Only the middle part reflects light into your eyes, while the other parts reflect it elsewhere, so you only see a glint on the middle part.
 
Well, you know all that and I know all that, but the average person in September 1966 is looking at special effects and taking them at face value.

The Star fields probably went by unnoticed but the cylinder was pretty obvious.
 
Well, you know all that and I know all that, but the average person in September 1966 is looking at special effects and taking them at face value.

Oh, hardly! You're thinking about it from the perspective of the modern age of realistic effects. In the '60s, or when I was a kid in the '70s, it was a given that visual effects did not look realistic. You could always tell they were models or paintings or puppets or hand animations or jump cuts, so you didn't take them literally. It was understood that visual effects were just symbolic, artistic approximations to suggest what you should imagine in your own head.

Even as a child, or at least once I was old enough to understand how space worked, I didn't take the "ribbon" animation of the barrier as a literal representation, but just an illustration to suggest the idea of a barrier. Because that's what visual effects were then -- symbols of something that may or may not look much like what you're seeing. I didn't assume the barrier was "really" flat any more than I assumed that Sylvia and Korob were "really" wire puppets.

I suspect the "ribbon" appearance of the barrier was chosen for the sake of what the visual needed to convey to the audience. If it had been portrayed as a wall spreading out endlessly both horizontally and vertically, it would've just been a solid field of light that conveyed nothing to the viewer. But as a "ribbon" of light, you could see it growing in height in the viewscreen from one shot to the next, which effectively conveys the sense of the ship drawing closer to it. The clarity of the necessary story point -- that the ship was getting closer -- was more important than fridge-logic questions like "why don't they go over?" that are irrelevant to the narrative. A story needs to be efficient and convey the information the audience needs in a quick and simple way, even if it requires fudging realism.
 
Oh, hardly! You're thinking about it from the perspective of the modern age of realistic effects. In the '60s, or when I was a kid in the '70s, it was a given that visual effects did not look realistic. You could always tell they were models or paintings or puppets or hand animations or jump cuts, so you didn't take them literally. It was understood that visual effects were just symbolic, artistic approximations to suggest what you should imagine in your own head.

I was always in that camp when sci-fi fx sagged. You had to play along and be forgiving to get your money's worth. But there were reviews of King Kong written in 1933 that dinged the film for its jerky and unbelievable monster effects. So the other view goes all the way back as well. @Ssosmcin is probably more in the middle, and his credentials as a good sport for TOS are above suspicion. :)

I suspect the "ribbon" appearance of the barrier was chosen for the sake of what the visual needed to convey to the audience. If it had been portrayed as a wall spreading out endlessly both horizontally and vertically, it would've just been a solid field of light that conveyed nothing to the viewer.

I was gonna say the fx guys were thinking two-dimensionally, and envisioned the barrier like an ocean fog bank you couldn't sail around, but you may have hit on something. Approaching a solid wall of red fog that fills the main viewing screen from any distance would be confusing. To make it understood, you'd have to add "surface detail" to the fog that grew visibly bigger as the ship approached, and that would make the low-tech animation a lot more complicated.

Another thing: maybe the "barrier" was never meant to be unavoidable. Maybe the Enterprise was on a mission to leave the galaxy and Kirk decided to retrace the path of the Valiant and figure out what happened to it. So of course we flew into the barrier, because that's the flight path the Valiant took.

This would also solve one of the great mysteries of astrophysics: how come telescopes can see things outside our galaxy when an ESP-laced energy barrier should be blocking our view? Turns out the barrier is just a localized blob, not a wrapping that encases the Milky Way. And that blob happens to be on the shortest path from Earth to the edge of the galaxy. Thus we no longer have to choose between modern astronomy and WNMHGB. Astronomy just got its reputation back!
 
Would Kirk plowing ahead into the barrier count as a nonsensical course of action? I always forgive it because the episode is so good and it needs to happen, but looking at the barrier makes one wonder why he doesn't fly over or under it. Non canon explanations aside.

One) possibly that is a special effects failure and in "real" life no way "over" or "under" the barrier was visible..

Two) possibly an interaction between the barrier and the approaching spacecraft makes the barrier form and intensifiy as a relatively flat line in front of hte Spacecraft, and no matter where thte spacecraft went the barrier would and srengthen right in fornt of teh spaceship.

Three) Possibly the barrier was equally strong in all directions leading out of the galaxy, but some quirk about its nature made it appear as a thin band in frotn of and approaching space ship. The thin band could be some sort of refelction from the physical barrier which shpfted invisible radiation into the visible spectrum, but only right in front of where the ship was heading.

So here are three theories explaining why it wouldn't have done any good to try to go "over" or "under" the barrier.

And here is a fourth theory: Kirk should have tried to go "over" or "under" the barrier, and Ssosmcin is correct that it was a mistake made by Kirk..

Take your pick, or think of other theories.

You can't take visual effects literally. I mean, TOS had starscapes with moving stars even when the ship was at impulse, and the stars moved far faster than parallax would allow even at high warp. Then there's the way the ship visibly follows a curving path when orbiting a planet, which is nonsense. I mean, on a planet's surface, the curvature is so wide that the ground appears flat to the eye. An orbit hundreds of kilometers up would be a much larger ellipse and thus would look far flatter, so the ship should appear to fly perfectly straight.

And later Trek perpetuates the problem of depicting things in space as 2-dimensional when they should be 3-dimensional. The example that annoys me most is the "ripple" effect of the Praxis explosion in ST 6, because so many other productions adopted it later on.

But if you want an explanation for the "ribbon" appearance, maybe it's an illusion due to the way the barrier polarizes light or something. By analogy, think about looking at a reflective surface that's curved into a cylinder. Only the middle part reflects light into your eyes, while the other parts reflect it elsewhere, so you only see a glint on the middle part.

So Christopher also thought of my suggestion number one.

About orbiting starships. I have often noted that they seem to be turning at a rate which would made a full circle only a few kilometers or miles in diameter.

Thus my theory is that Starships often travel in an aeronautical orbit instead of an astronomical orbit. In an aeronautical orbit, an aircraft moves in a closed figure near an airfield waiting for clearance to land, and of course it is powered all the time it is making that type of orbit. So I suspect that starships are often in powered flight above a planet's surface, and try to stay above a spefic spot on the planet's surface while being far too close to the planet to be in a geosynchronous orbit. Thus they have to constantly use power to hover above th the spot they want, and will start to fall as soon as they loose engine power.

And apparently there is some technical reason why the starship can't stay in the exact position it wants but has to constantly circle around in a closed pattern with a diamter of a few kilometers or miles.

And somewhere, possibly on this BBS, and probably this year, I read a statement claiming there was some sort of proof that starships don't in fact travel in tiny circles above planets. But I didn't see that video and don't know what their argument was.
 
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And somewhere, possibly on this BBS, and probably this year, I read a statement claiming there was some sort of proof that starships don't in fact travel in tiny circles above planets. But I didn't see that video and don't know what their argument was.

Who needs "proof?" It's just an artistic interpretation rather than a literal truth. VFX shots should be approached like paintings, not photographs. They're meant to suggest or represent an idea rather than be evidence of what something really looks like. (And not just older effects. A lot of the shots in the modern Trek shows are incredibly inaccurate to the dialogue, like when Discovery put Earth behind a starbase said to be 100 AU from Earth, or when SNW's season finale put the Enterprise right in front of a destroyed outpost that dialogue said it was too far away to defend.)
 
Oh, hardly! You're thinking about it from the perspective of the modern age of realistic effects.

Nah, I'm the guy in my family who defends 1933 King Kong to my grandkids. I watch everything in context.

Actually I'm playing devil's advocate and looking at it from the perspective of my friend Steve in 1986. He wasn't interested in Star Trek but went to see The Voyage Home because his girlfriend heard it was funny. He loved it and asked me to introduce him to the series. Out came my VHS tape of the episode.

Steve: "Ummm why don't they just go around it or something?"

Literally the first thing he asked. He and I are the same age, both children of the 70's rerun era. He was accustomed to rough effects from the likes of I Dream of Jeannie and The Twilight Zone. Even another guy I know, a long time Trek fan, dings the episode because visually, the barrier looked easy to navigate around. So it's not about seeing it with today's eyes. It's about how you look at the effects and whether you rationalize it in your mind or consider it a mark against. I can understand this because the energy barrier isn't a bad or failed effect, it's just rendered in a way that opens up the question. Without a stated explanation on screen, it's a legit one narratively.

I excuse nearly every effect that may not quite make it because I'm aware of the era, the cost and technological limitations. For example, I'm well aware that parts of the Planet Killer aren't really transparent. That's an effect limitation.
 
Would Kirk plowing ahead into the barrier count as a nonsensical course of action? I always forgive it because the episode is so good and it needs to happen, but looking at the barrier makes one wonder why he doesn't fly over or under it. Non canon explanations aside.
Yeah, it's nonsensical. There's no reason to rush into the barrier. They could stop and scan the thing for days. It's not like there's a rag tag fugitive fleet nipping on their heels to get out of the galaxy. They know something unknown happened to the Valiant, so caution seems more than prudent.
 
And somewhere, possibly on this BBS, and probably this year, I read a statement claiming there was some sort of proof that starships don't in fact travel in tiny circles above planets. But I didn't see that video and don't know what their argument was.

FWIW, the original VFX shot of the Enterprise orbiting a planet can represent her either doing tight circles or making a circular orbit at an altitude of 6,600 miles. It was a rough analysis done back in 2011.
 
The real nonsensical thing is that a "barrier at the edge of the galaxy" exists at all, since the galaxy has no definable edge. The stars of the stellar disk just gradually thin out with distance. Beyond the stellar disk is the halo of loose stars, globular clusters, and interstellar gas; and arguably the real galaxy is the even larger dark matter halo that the visible galaxy rests within like the pit in a peach. (It's the dark matter whose gravity does most of the work concentrating the stars, and there are galaxies of nearly pure dark matter out there, so arguably the stars are a secondary element.)

Also, if you accept the conceit that there is a point where the stars come to an end, what is the point of going "Beyond the Farthest Star," as Samuel Peeples titled his second use of the same premise? If there's nothing there, why go there? It's not like we don't have a clear line of sight to see what's beyond it. (In The Captain's Oath, I posited that they were actually rising "above" the stellar disk -- since that's the only way to reach the "edge" of the disk in a reasonable time -- and the goal was to get a view of the galaxy without the obstruction of intervening stars and dust clouds, like climbing a tall tree to get a better view of the forest.)
 
Would Kirk plowing ahead into the barrier count as a nonsensical course of action? I always forgive it because the episode is so good and it needs to happen, but looking at the barrier makes one wonder why he doesn't fly over or under it. Non canon explanations aside.

I've always subscribed to the idea that the barrier envelopes the galaxy, not just rings it. Otherwise why wouldn't the Kelvans go around it?
 
I've always subscribed to the idea that the barrier envelopes the galaxy, not just rings it. Otherwise why wouldn't the Kelvans go around it?
Also, the location of the Andromeda galaxy in relation to the Milky Way means that if you leave at the rim you'd be heading in the wrong direction!
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I read the title of this thread and got really confused for a minute, thinking that this was an Outlook meeting topic from where I work.
 
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I've always subscribed to the idea that the barrier envelopes the galaxy, not just rings it. Otherwise why wouldn't the Kelvans go around it?

That's always been a given, in every fan or tie-in reference work I've ever seeen that mentioned it. I mean, of course the Enterprise would've gone to the nearest edge of the galaxy, which would take it perpendicular to the plane of the disk. That goes without saying as long as you remember space is 3-dimensional.

What I don't agree with, though, is the widespread assumption that the barrier must encircle the entire galaxy. There's not a shred of onscreen evidence of that, or at least there wasn't until Discovery just recently. All TOS established was that there was a barrier at the edge of the galaxy relatively near UFP space. The Great Lakes are at the edge of the United States, but they don't go all the way around it. So the kneejerk assumption that the barrier must be all-encompassing makes no sense.

I always preferred Diane Duane's explanation in the novel The Wounded Sky -- that the "barrier" was just a kind of exotic wavefront from an extragalactic hypernova, a portion of an expanding spherical bubble that just happened to align with the approximate "edge" of the galactic stellar disk near the Federation as of the 23rd century, but that would eventually spread out further and dissipate. Just as there's no reason to assume the barrier is everywhere based on its local presence, there's no reason to assume it's permanent based on a short-term observation.
 
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