Nolan 'Unsure' about Batman Sequel

[Lapis Exilis]

middyseaforth said:
Although, I like the idea of a more intimate movie rather than a huge epic film like TDK which I enjoyed a great deal. I'd like a third film to be something where the drama is more intimate and claustrophobic. Moreover, I'd like to see the detective aspect of Batman take center stage rather than being peripheral to the story. Perhaps a Hard Boiled or Noir Batman movie. A story of detection in which Gordon must enlist, on the sly, Batman to solve a crime of the underworld instead of going directly against a big name villain. Perhaps a gruesome murder which, like in many good Noir/Hard Boiled stories, only leads Batman into a deeper web of deceit and lurid behavior.

I also love this idea, and thought it was along the lines of what Nolan might be hinting at in the quote I pulled out of the article. Though I could also see something that went for the more psychological aspects of Batman.

But the noir/ hard-boiled quality of Batman is my favorite, so I'd love to see your suggestion followed!

I meant "three-act" as in "beginning, middle, end" rather than modern screenplay three-act guidelines, though I admit I wasn't too clear about that. As for Shakespeare, I gather he only did one trilogy (the Henry VIs), which I have no familiarity with. My point was that trilogies like Pirates and Matrix seem to go for "beginning, middle, middle", instead of finding a quicker, more natural conclusion.

I understood that "beginning, middle, end" is what you meant. I was just saying that the trend in contemporary storytelling has tended to be for the beginning to be about 1/6-2/6 of the story, the middle to be 3/6-4/6 of the story and the ending to be 1/6 of the story, which is a length structure dictated by movies, back when movies were 1 2-hour story. That is, I don't think a quicker conclusion is actually more natural. I think it just feels that way to us because we've all been raised on Hollywood movies which tend to start the third act in the last 10-15 minutes of a movie, with lots of climax and little resolution.

It's very possible to tell a story where the beginning, middle and end are the same length - and I think Lord of the Rings is a good example of that. LotR is indeed all one story, but it still has a three act structure. But it deliberately followed the dictates of an older epic structure. Jackson was loyal to that, for the most part, and we ended up with a trilogy where the beginning, middle and end were essentially the same length.

 

[MeanJoePhaser]

What they shouldn't do.

1. Retell Batman's origin
2. Batman take on partners. Look at BLADE TRINITY.
3. Too many villains, Spiderman 3.
4. Nipples on the batsuit
5. Use a lame non-comic book villain, see Superman 3
6. tackle real world issues like nuclear disarmament or terrorism...

 

[Lindley]

7. Superman cameo (I know they're both DC, but that wouldn't feel right...)

 

[Obiwanshinobi]

if no Chris Nolan, will that mean no Christian Bale too?

Anybody know if they are both contractually obligated to do a third movie?

But if there is no nolan, and still a bale then i say throw fincher in there or maybe Aranofsky....

 

[Lapis Exilis]

Bale, I believe, is contractually obligated for a third movie.

Aronofsky would be too esoteric. Fincher would be fantastic if he could pull it back to PG-13, which I think he could. Seven mostly suggested its awfulness, rather than spending a lot of time dwelling on gore. And it's one of the best detective movies ever made. Great tone too for Batman.

 

[nx1701g]

^ I recall reading though a few months ago in an interview with Bale where he said if Nolan left he probably wouldn't be back. I'm not sure but I remember where I read it but I remember reading it.

 

[Captaindemotion]

Re: If no Nolan?

If not Nolan, I'd prefer they go in a completely different direction rather than try to find someone close to Nolan's style. Hmm. I'll have to think about this one.

Isn't that what they tried by bringing in Joel Shumacher to replace Tim Burton? Out with gothic Gotham, in with neon Gotham. Out with grim Batman, in with wise-cracking Bats. And look how well that worked out ...

If Nolan doesn't return, they don't have to get a total clone, but they should aim for continuity and consistency. Like what Paul Greengrass did with the Bourne movies - he added some adrenaline and his own style, but TBS and TBU are definitely in the same style as TBI.

Give the huge success and acclaim rightly afforded to TDK, I think it would be lunacy to go in a completely different style with the next one. Sure, I don't want the next movie to be a near-remake with just a different villain, but there has to be a happy medium. A logical progression - the Bourne example is as good a template as any to follow, IMHO.

 

[Lapis Exilis]

Re: If no Nolan?

Give the huge success and acclaim rightly afforded to TDK, I think it would be lunacy to go in a completely different style with the next one. Sure, I don't want the next movie to be a near-remake with just a different villain, but there has to be a happy medium. A logical progression - the Bourne example is as good a template as any to follow, IMHO.

Ach, must disagree. I found The Bourne Supremacy to be a yawn-inducing rehash of The Bourne Ultimatum. It had no character progression at all. All that build up and all we get at the end is the most basic of treatments of the assassin's dilemma - lord, watching La Femme Nikita for the 40th time would be a more engrossing exploration of that story than the shallow bs TBS offered.

Batman Begins was a character study, TDK was a taut ensemble crime story, a third flick should be something else because swapping it up has worked tremendously well, and at least 3/4ths of what's wrong with franchises is trying to reduce them to a successful formula.

 

[stj]

I can think of three novel approaches.

1.) Realism. That does not mean the Nolan version which is making it seem like a cool guy could put on a rubber suit and still be cool. But one that for the space of two hours makes it plausible that a billionaire could have a reason for putting on a costume but still actually get criminals arrested and convicted.

2.) In depth portrayal of obsession-compulsion. The sentimental twaddle posing as the Alfred character would go away. If the writer had the nerve, there would be Robin. A grown man putting a kid into crimefighting is real darkness, not the play stuff so far.

3.) Batman learns crime is a social phenomenon and/or learns that billionaire "crimefighters" tend to fund paramilitary death squads and such, instead of staying up nights. Instead of Batman successfully invading Chinese air space with impunity, let him wander into Traffik (the UK miniseries if you please!)

Nolan has regressed since Insomnia near as I can tell. Thematically he hasn't said anything new and he's said it more foolishly since.

 

[Lonemagpie]

I wonder if his dilemma is down to plans having been in place for the Joker to return as a vital part of the story, and Ledger's death getting in the way...

 

[cardinal biggles]

^I wouldn't be surprised. I remember there being some interviews where they suggested that either Batman or Gordon would be visiting the Joker at Arkham and using him in a Hannibal Lecter-ish fashion, but of course Ledger's death put the kibosh on that.

 

[nx1701g]

^ Sort of like how they used Calendar Man in The Long Halloween?

 

[FalTorPan]

Found this on IMDB

The Dark Knight director Christopher Nolan has doubts over the next Batman movie - because the third film in the franchise may be too difficult to make...

But the moviemaker is unsure whether he will put his name to the next sequel - because films movies are notoriously tricky.

He tells the Los Angeles Times, "On a more superficial level, I have to ask the question: .How many good third movies in a franchise can people name?. At the same time, in taking on the second one, we had the challenge of trying to make a great second movie, and there haven't been too many of those either." [MORE]

Translation: I'll make it... for a much higher fee.

 

[Tulin]

I certainly can't think of many particularly good chapter three movies, not even BttF and Jedi; though there were wonderful parts to both of those. (Azkaban doesn't really count, since it's part three of seven.)

I think BttF has a solid and satisfying Third.

I do, as well.

BTTF3 has suffered criticism from lots of ignorant people over the years who know next to nothing about story structure and designing a satisfying final act.

Just in thematic and motiff callbacks it is a solid piece of writing. You have the whole Biff and gang set up, not to mention Marty ending up again in a relative's care while he tries to sort things out. Couple that this time with an inversion so we see Doc Brown falling in love and his ultimately extremely satisfying ending.

BTTF3 rounds out the series as one of the best and most complete trilogies ever made. It needs no continuation(indeed, the films themselves claim the series is over)and is a wholy wonderful and satisfying movie viewing experience.

 

[crouteru]

Just as a note that'll probably get me flamed, I thought Alien 3 was a great final act to a superb trilogy, though Resurrection kinda ruined the trilogy idea...

Why not re-cast The Joker in the third film if they wanted to use him? Surely there's somebody out there who could look similar under all the make-up. I hope Nolan can make a third entry that everybody likes, and can therefore break the bad-third-film mold.

 

[nx1701g]

^ That is a possibility. Or they could say that Two-Face did somehow survive.

 

[RobertScorpio]

^ That is a possibility. Or they could say that Two-Face did somehow survive.

I might get laughed at...but I think they should recast the JOKER with that dude from TWILITE. He kind of looks like the Joker in that movie anyway..and it would attract all the horny teen-girls who love that dude...

Rob

 

[miraclefan]

Although, I like the idea of a more intimate movie rather than a huge epic film like TDK which I enjoyed a great deal. I'd like a third film to be something where the drama is more intimate and claustrophobic. Moreover, I'd like to see the detective aspect of Batman take center stage rather than being peripheral to the story. Perhaps a Hard Boiled or Noir Batman movie. A story of detection in which Gordon must enlist, on the sly, Batman to solve a crime of the underworld instead of going directly against a big name villain. Perhaps a gruesome murder which, like in many good Noir/Hard Boiled stories, only leads Batman into a deeper web of deceit and lurid behavior.

I LOVE this idea!

I can think of three novel approaches.

1.) Realism. That does not mean the Nolan version which is making it seem like a cool guy could put on a rubber suit and still be cool. But one that for the space of two hours makes it plausible that a billionaire could have a reason for putting on a costume but still actually get criminals arrested and convicted.

2.) In depth portrayal of obsession-compulsion. The sentimental twaddle posing as the Alfred character would go away. If the writer had the nerve, there would be Robin. A grown man putting a kid into crimefighting is real darkness, not the play stuff so far.

3.) Batman learns crime is a social phenomenon and/or learns that billionaire "crimefighters" tend to fund paramilitary death squads and such, instead of staying up nights. Instead of Batman successfully invading Chinese air space with impunity, let him wander into Traffik (the UK miniseries if you please!)

Nolan has regressed since Insomnia near as I can tell. Thematically he hasn't said anything new and he's said it more foolishly since.

I realy like no.2 I always thought putting a kid in danger like that, was a little ''OFF''

^ That is a possibility. Or they could say that Two-Face did somehow survive.

I might get laughed at...but I think they should recast the JOKER with that dude from TWILITE. He kind of looks like the Joker in that movie anyway..and it would attract all the horny teen-girls who love that dude...

Rob

I can't belive I'm going to say this, but I agree! it may just WORK!

 

[Thrall]

I can see Robin as a support character, like Oracle in Birds of Prey. Infact they could have Dick and Barbara doing that together. I agree with the idea of putting a kid in harms way is a bit silly. But I'd still like the character to be there, and for him to be done right.

 

[TemporalFlux]

I've seen Nolan's continued statements about the rarity of a memorable third movie in a series, but I think he's just trying to lower expectations a little so that a third movie can be judged on its own merit. A third movie *can* be excellent (i.e. Lord of the Rings); but the quality would suffer if Nolan walks into it with the attitude that the odds are against him. I would like to think Nolan doesn't have that kind of attitude and that this is just PR, but I don't know the man.

As for my own feelings on a third movie, I agree with an idea I read awhile back - I think it's a good opportunity for a serious take on Riddler coupled with Hugo Strange consulting the police department as they try to capture Batman.