What are people's opinions on the Whoniverse's policy of not having anything of a supernatural/paranormal/magical nature? It's been stressed often enough that such things have no place in the Whoniverse, and things that might appear to be supernatural always have a scientific (or rather sci-fi) explanation, i.e. DW "The Daemons" and SJA "The Eternity Trap."
No supernatural/magic - yay or nay?
- Thread starter EJA
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Been a while since I saw it but isn't it implied that the Beast is just another ancient alien ala Suhtek?
Fenric was evil since the dawn of time...but then there seem to have been a lot of evils around at the dawn of time
I don't think it would hurt the show for the Doctor to come up against something unexplainable for once...
Fenric was evil since the dawn of time...but then there seem to have been a lot of evils around at the dawn of time
I don't think it would hurt the show for the Doctor to come up against something unexplainable for once...
Well, true. I guess they did offhandedly explain away the Devil. Guess I seem to remember Ten making a big deal about him, though.
Either way, I agree that it wouldn't hurt The Doc to run into a force like magic. But, the rational logic of Who's universe means that this would have to be a *big deal* for The Doctor. The kind of thing where maybe he doesn't win, and just survives. Maybe it completely bests him, and he and the companion escape by the edge of their pants? I don't know. It would have to be "Q Who"-Borg level encounter for Doctor Who, in general...
Either way, I agree that it wouldn't hurt The Doc to run into a force like magic. But, the rational logic of Who's universe means that this would have to be a *big deal* for The Doctor. The kind of thing where maybe he doesn't win, and just survives. Maybe it completely bests him, and he and the companion escape by the edge of their pants? I don't know. It would have to be "Q Who"-Borg level encounter for Doctor Who, in general...
Clarke's Third Law -- "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
I have no trouble with magic in Who. The Doctor can be a madman in a magical box, or he can be the last son of a dead world in his super-scientific time vessel, and they're both completely valid interpretations of the character and his milieu. Doctor Who is magical realism anyway.
I have no trouble with magic in Who. The Doctor can be a madman in a magical box, or he can be the last son of a dead world in his super-scientific time vessel, and they're both completely valid interpretations of the character and his milieu. Doctor Who is magical realism anyway.
Beat me to it. Clarke's Third Law immediately popped in my head when I read the first post.
I don't really care either way. Doctor Who isn't hard science fiction, it's more akin to Star Wars -- "science fantasy," so to speak. If they give a technobabble explanation for something that's clearly unscientific, that's fine, and if they just out and out call it magic, that's fine by me too.
He did - Midnight. And boy did it shit him up.
The McCoy era did seem to flirt with the supernatural a little. Battlefield has a "devourer of worlds" who ostensibly comes from hell, if I recall; and the previous year's Silver Nemesis has Lady Peinfiorte employ what the Doctor(?) referred to as "black magic" to travel in time.
That's true. There's that scene in Battlefield were the Doctor and Ace are exploring the dimension-travelling vessel; Ace asks how it flies and the Doctor responds "Magic." He then asks Ace what Clarke's Law is, and when she tells him, he says that the reverse is true: Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology."
Then again, the magical elements in that story originated in a parallel universe where magic was dominant, not the Doctor's home universe. And I believe it was strongly implied in The Curse of Fenric that Fenric had somehow had a hand in Peinforte's time travelling. It's still fun to think about though.
Look, you can have a little bit of that stuff, but there needs to be more scientific explanations and less magic in general.
The old show was always about demystifying superstition with science and slipping in educational elements here and there.
I feel rather strongly that Who should always stay true to it's roots. It shouldn't try to be Harry Potter, coz it's not...
The old show was always about demystifying superstition with science and slipping in educational elements here and there.
I feel rather strongly that Who should always stay true to it's roots. It shouldn't try to be Harry Potter, coz it's not...
Well, there's always "The Shakespeare Code." Granted, that was explained as another kind of science (IIRC) but also still explicitly magic.
The source of all interpretations of the Devil/Evil, yes? But I agree - part of the reason I love that two-parter so much is the almost-supernatural elements it throws at the Doctor.
The source of all interpretations of the Devil/Evil, yes? But I agree - part of the reason I love that two-parter so much is the almost-supernatural elements it throws at the Doctor.
It's already like that. To be honest, there are times I can get a bit annoyed at how often weird things turn out to be due to aliens or alien gizmos, rather than something that's really strange and unexplainable.
Oh yeah, I'd forgotten it for a while, but there are a couple of the older BBC novels that feature genuine magic/supernatural. There's the novel Wolfsbane, for example. In the books it was explained that Gallifrey's destruction had altered the laws of reality and brought magic back (This isn't the same destruction as in NuWho, BTW). It's doubtful this is the way it happened in the TV series though.
If I recall, Martha says that there's no such thing as magic and Ten counters by saying that there's no such thing as science either; both are ways of describing the universe.
Here's the Doctor's explanation for the Carrionite's magic.
im not keen on Magic in sci-fi, dress science up to look like magic, but thats it.
Magic should be for shows like Merlin or Charmed, someone with superior strengh or superior intellgence / technology becomes less specail when there is someone who can undo it all, with just a wave of their hand, or the wiggle of a nose.
That said, RTDs has seemingly gone out of his way to change that.
The Christmas Invasion, blood control appears alot like magic
Last of the Time Lords, looks ALOT like magic
The End of Time, the Masters change is undone when Rassilon waves a glove.
Talking of magical gloves, did they ever explain how the Risen Meten worked? whilst both Torchwood and SJA has dealt with something that looks ALOT like ghosts, to say nothing of the giant demon, which was apparntly hidden under Cardiff, and same deal in SJA.
So plenty of looks like magic stuff in the Whoverse.
Magic should be for shows like Merlin or Charmed, someone with superior strengh or superior intellgence / technology becomes less specail when there is someone who can undo it all, with just a wave of their hand, or the wiggle of a nose.
That said, RTDs has seemingly gone out of his way to change that.
The Christmas Invasion, blood control appears alot like magic
Last of the Time Lords, looks ALOT like magic
The End of Time, the Masters change is undone when Rassilon waves a glove.
Talking of magical gloves, did they ever explain how the Risen Meten worked? whilst both Torchwood and SJA has dealt with something that looks ALOT like ghosts, to say nothing of the giant demon, which was apparntly hidden under Cardiff, and same deal in SJA.
So plenty of looks like magic stuff in the Whoverse.
Good rule.
Very interesting, thanks for reminding me! Not seen that episode in quite a while.
Sarah Jane was pretty adamant that there's absolutely no such thing as magic or the supernatural in SJA "The Eternity Trap" though.
