No Stimulus Package. No Bailouts.

[CaptainHawk1]

Most Americans wouldn't know conservatism if it bit them on the ass (liberalism too, for that matter).

Unfortunately, conservatism has bit America on the ass -- witness the result! -- RR

Nonsense. Stop the talking points bullshit already. None, I repeat NONE of the Bush Administration economic policies have been concervative so knock this shit off that conservative principles have gotten us into this mess. Clinton was far more conservative than W ever was when it comes to economics.

What you dopey liberals can't seem to figure out is that since 9/11, the economy has taken a back seat and this is a problem that wasn't just caused by Bush. It's a problem that was caused by the fact that we consume more than we produce and the Dems are just as much to blame. Hell, that's W told everybody to do after 9/11. I've been saying for 4 years that the growing economy was complete smokescreen as it was based entirely on spending money that wasn't there (which Obama wants to continue to do).

There isn't one bad guy in this, there isn't one party to blame. This has been a concerted effort by all parties going back to the mid 1990's to give us what we have today.

Obama's success has nothing to do with voters thinking that he's the best person for the job (as polls indicated), it had to do with blaming the Bush Administration for the economic situation. For fuck's sake, you liberals are deluded if you think that Americans buy into this tax and spend bullshit.

I'm at work now so I don't have time to go into a long debate but I will say this: Obama's plans don't necessarily scare me but it needs to be tempered. Unlike most knee-jerk reactionaries, I want Obama to be successful because I want what's best for my country.

-Shawn

 

[Dayton3]

Any govt. intervention in the economy is likely to be for the worst in my opinion.

It hasn't been that way when it was done in the past, so there is little reason to think future intervention would do so in the future.

Government intervention in the Great Depression made it longer and deeper than it likely would've been otherwise.

An emerging consensus among economists has been that the right government actions would've been to do nothing.

Government intervention, the governments pushing of home ownership on as many people as possible, largely caused the current home mortgage meltdown.

 

[Davros]

Government intervention in the Great Depression made it longer and deeper than it likely would've been otherwise.

No it didn't it. In fact it has prevented more depressions. In the 19th century they were a semi regular occurance.

An emerging consensus among economists has been that the right government actions would've been to do nothing.

Not by any economists that know what they are talking about.

Government intervention, the governments pushing of home ownership on as many people as possible, largely caused the current home mortgage meltdown.

That's not true. Only a small percentage of the mortgages covered by those laws were even involved in the mortgage crisis. Increasing home ownership though government programs like the loans to veterans helped create the great post war growth we saw in our economy.

 

[TheLonelySquire]

Most Americans wouldn't know conservatism if it bit them on the ass (liberalism too, for that matter).

Unfortunately, conservatism has bit America on the ass -- witness the result! -- RR

How so? If you're referring to President Bush, he's hardly a conservative.

 

[CaptainHawk1]

^ ^ ^ ^ ^
Ironically, I voted for Barry Goldwater (AUH2O) in the first election where I was eligible. I AM a card-carrying liberal because my Christianity demands it of me. "

Curious, what Christian denomination promotes and demands abortion?

I prefer to think of a liberal breadth of vision. Observation and evidence inform my thinking, not Fox Noise.

How about educating yourself, that might work for you too.

Again, more talking points bullshit. The news division of Fox is not slanted unlike every other news outlet out there. Many of their commentators are but they make no bones about that just like those cocksmokers Olbermann and Matthews make no bones about fact that they have to wipe Obama's jizz off of their chin every evening before broadcast.

In fact the Pew Research Center and the Center for Media and Public affiars both confirmed that Fox's election coverage was the most fair to all sides.

http://www.cmpa.com/releases/07_12_21_Election_Study.pdf

Perhaps the American people aren't as stupid a you liberlas assume they are and perhaps that's why Fox kicks the living crap out of the other cable networks and all fo the major networks as well.

-Shawn

 

[CaptainHawk1]

Any govt. intervention in the economy is likely to be for the worst in my opinion.

It hasn't been that way when it was done in the past, so there is little reason to think future intervention would do so in the future.

Government intervention in the Great Depression made it longer and deeper than it likely would've been otherwise.

Yes and no. Gov't intervention wasn't necessarily the problem, it was the excessive amount of Gov't Intervention, i.e. the New Deal which extended the Depression by three years. Another problem with using that as an example is that it was more than 70 years ago and this country's population, economy and culture have changed to the point of being unrecognizable to 1929. It's apples to oranges.

D3, you've been here longer than I have (9 years and counting) and to this day, you still can't come up with a cohesive conservative argument. It's rather embarrassing to those of us Conservatives who actually know what we're talking about and don't knee-jerk every issue. You get nowhere in an argument with out of context one-liners spouted by Hannnity and Limbaugh.

-Shawn

 

[Dayton3]

It hasn't been that way when it was done in the past, so there is little reason to think future intervention would do so in the future.

Government intervention in the Great Depression made it longer and deeper than it likely would've been otherwise.

Yes and no. Gov't intervention wasn't necessarily the problem, it was the excessive amount of Gov't Intervention, i.e. the New Deal which extended the Depression by three years. Another problem with using that as an example is that it was more than 70 years ago and this country's population, economy and culture have changed to the point of being unrecognizable to 1929. It's apples to oranges.

D3, you've been here longer than I have (9 years and counting) and to this day, you still can't come up with a cohesive conservative argument. It's rather embarrassing to those of us Conservatives who actually know what we're talking about and don't knee-jerk every issue. You get nowhere in an argument with out of context one-liners spouted by Hannnity and Limbaugh.

-Shawn

I don't embrace conservatism as some kind of cure all.

I see it as a tool. Nothing more, nothing less.

And I don't recall ever quoting Sean Hannity or Rush Limbaugh.

I've never seen one of Rush Limbaughs programs for that matter.

 

[Misfit Toy]

Government intervention, the governments pushing of home ownership on as many people as possible, largely caused the current home mortgage meltdown.

Link?

 

[CaptainHawk1]

Government intervention in the Great Depression made it longer and deeper than it likely would've been otherwise.

Yes and no. Gov't intervention wasn't necessarily the problem, it was the excessive amount of Gov't Intervention, i.e. the New Deal which extended the Depression by three years. Another problem with using that as an example is that it was more than 70 years ago and this country's population, economy and culture have changed to the point of being unrecognizable to 1929. It's apples to oranges.

D3, you've been here longer than I have (9 years and counting) and to this day, you still can't come up with a cohesive conservative argument. It's rather embarrassing to those of us Conservatives who actually know what we're talking about and don't knee-jerk every issue. You get nowhere in an argument with out of context one-liners spouted by Hannnity and Limbaugh.

-Shawn

I don't embrace conservatism as some kind of cure all.

I see it as a tool. Nothing more, nothing less.

And I don't recall ever quoting Sean Hannity or Rush Limbaugh.

I've never seen one of Rush Limbaughs programs for that matter.

You're right, it's worse than that, you latch on to conservativism (conservatism is incorrect) without any reasoned forethought, which makes you as bad as a liberal.

As for quoting Hannity and Limbaugh, that's all you've done throughout this thread. You're like a parrot (or maybe you're just writing their material).

Another thing, too: the title of this thread is No Stimulus Package. No Bailouts and yet bailouts haven't even been discussed by you (or anyone else for tht matter, but I'm putting the onus on you as you brought it up). Don't you think that the bailouts are a far bigger concern than the stimulus package? I know I do.

-Shawn

 

[CaptainHawk1]

Government intervention, the governments pushing of home ownership on as many people as possible, largely caused the current home mortgage meltdown.

Link?

See my previous statement about his talking points.

-Shawn

 

[Misfit Toy]

Government intervention, the governments pushing of home ownership on as many people as possible, largely caused the current home mortgage meltdown.

Link?

See my previous statement about his talking points.

-Shawn

Oh I see what you're saying - I just don't want him to expect to be taken seriously without even attempting to frame an argument.

 

[Davros]

Government intervention, the governments pushing of home ownership on as many people as possible, largely caused the current home mortgage meltdown.

Link?

See my previous statement about his talking points.

-Shawn

But the New Deal did not extend the great depression.

 

[CaptainHawk1]

Link?

See my previous statement about his talking points.

-Shawn

But the New Deal did not extend the great depression.

Wrong.

And actually, I was incorrect. It didn't extend it by 3 years... it extended it by at least 7.

http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/FDR-s-Policies-Prolonged-Depression-5409.aspx?RelNum=5409

-Shawn

 

[Michael Chris]

I have to say I support stimulus packages, and to a limited extent bailouts. I'm worried that it could go too far. Too much of a move away from what has worked into the unproven.

Curious, what Christian denomination promotes and demands abortion?

None that I'm aware of, but then again neither do most liberals. They may advocate that there is a right to an abortion, but demand it of people? I can assure you most do not. Then again there is nothing in the Word that says abortion is wrong, yes there are references to having been made in the womb but it says nothing of the value of what was made. The Bible also said that God made all things, does that mean that a fly has the same worth as a person? In fact, there are certain verses that seem to show that the unborn has a lesser status to the born. My point is views on abortion have nothing to do with the Bible if verse are taken into context.

The news division of Fox is not slanted unlike every other news outlet out there.

Everything is slanted so long as it comes from this earth.

--Michael, Conservative Pro-life Christian

 

[Davros]

See my previous statement about his talking points.

-Shawn

But the New Deal did not extend the great depression.

Wrong.

And actually, I was incorrect. It didn't extend it by 3 years... it extended it by at least 7.

http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/FDR-s-Policies-Prolonged-Depression-5409.aspx?RelNum=5409

-Shawn

I have seen their paper before. They fall far short of proving their point.

 

[CaptainHawk1]

But the New Deal did not extend the great depression.

Wrong.

And actually, I was incorrect. It didn't extend it by 3 years... it extended it by at least 7.

http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/FDR-s-Policies-Prolonged-Depression-5409.aspx?RelNum=5409

-Shawn

I have seen their paper before. They fall far short of proving their point.

No they don't, you just can't admit that you're wrong.

-Shawn

 

[CaptainHawk1]

I have to say I support stimulus packages, and to a limited extent bailouts. I'm worried that it could go too far. Too much of a move away from what has worked into the unproven.

Curious, what Christian denomination promotes and demands abortion?

None that I'm aware of, but then again neither do most liberals. They may advocate that there is a right to an abortion, but demand it of people? I can assure you most do not. Then again there is nothing in the Word that says abortion is wrong, yes there are references to having been made in the womb but it says nothing of the value of what was made. The Bible also said that God made all things, does that mean that a fly has the same worth as a person? In fact, there are certain verses that seem to show that the unborn has a lesser status to the born. My point is views on abortion have nothing to do with the Bible if verse are taken into context.

I made no references to the Bible whatsoever what I pointed out was the dichotomy of the left wing agenda being demanded by any Christian denomination. It has nothing to do with the Bible specifically mentioning it or not, it has to do with what your Faith teaches. I'm Catholic, and use the same book and even though the book doesn't mention abortion, it does discuss sanctity of life and my Church's Doctirne on this is very clear. There is no Christain Faith that permits abortion or that doesn't subscribe to the notion that human life begins at conception. This is my point about his claim about his Christianity demanding he be liberal. It's nonsense.

There is no "choice" when you're a Christian, period. The liberal agenda continues to push abortion on-demand policies. According to Fact Check, Obama still hasn't been honest on his vote against The Born Alive Act (http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/obama_and_infanticide.html) and he has promised to enact the Freedom of Choice Act which would eliminate any and all restrictions on abortions currently imposed.

So, again, I shall point out to you just how dichotomous the position that Christianity demands one to be a liberal. This isn't an abortion argument, this is an argument against self-righteous liberals who claim to be Christian when their own political positions don't coincide with being Christian.

The news division of Fox is not slanted unlike every other news outlet out there.

Everything is slanted so long as it comes from this earth.

--Michael, Conservative Pro-life Christian

Not according to Pew.

-Shawn

 

[sidious618]

In fact the Pew Research Center and the Center for Media and Public affiars both confirmed that Fox's election coverage was the most fair to all sides.

http://www.cmpa.com/releases/07_12_21_Election_Study.pdf

Perhaps the American people aren't as stupid a you liberlas assume they are and perhaps that's why Fox kicks the living crap out of the other cable networks and all fo the major networks as well.

-Shawn

The study was long ago refuted as bollocks, especially when many other studies found the opposite results. When conservatives try to say that FOX is the most balanced they always point to that survey. Why? Because no others say that.

 

[CaptainHawk1]

In fact the Pew Research Center and the Center for Media and Public affiars both confirmed that Fox's election coverage was the most fair to all sides.

http://www.cmpa.com/releases/07_12_21_Election_Study.pdf

Perhaps the American people aren't as stupid a you liberlas assume they are and perhaps that's why Fox kicks the living crap out of the other cable networks and all fo the major networks as well.

-Shawn

The study was long ago refuted as bollocks, especially when many other studies found the opposite results. When conservatives try to say that FOX is the most balanced they always point to that survey. Why? Because no others say that.

By who? Show me something reputable. Pew didn't even want to admit the truth, I can't see why you would want to. And how could have been refuted 'long ago' when it only came out after the election?

You spout these platitudes with nothing reputable to back any of it up. Nice try, but you FAIL!

Keep drinking that Kool Aid, though.

I like Cherry, myself.

-Shawn

 

[sidious618]

You spout these platitudes with nothing reputable to back any of it. Nice try, but you FAIL, Kool Aid drinker.

I don't think you know what the word platitude means but to answer your challenge here are some surveys and articles:

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/media/cablenews/analysis_highlights.html

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1067

http://www.iies.su.se/~ekaplan/foxnews.pdf

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=media-bias-presidential-election

This here is just an interesting article about bias in the media in general and how all US media is right of center when looked at in the Global perspective: http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/blog/media-bias.pdf

This article shows that FOX is the worst of the cable channels but that the others aren't all that great: http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A32631-2005Mar13?language=printer

And this doesn't even take into account the unprosfessional attitudes constantly on display at FOX News.

Keep drinking that Kool Aid, though.

I like Cherry, myself.

-Shawn

I noticed that you kept editting your post to add in yet another dig at me. I don't appreciate it and it does little to help your point. Go to TNZ if you want to do that.