No love from the media. (Spoilers for "Before Dishonor")

[Turtletrekker]

When the SW books killed Chewbacca, I remember all sorts of news coverage. The deaths of Superman and Captain America were also both news-worthy events.

But the death of Janeway...?

I hear crickets chirping and a dog barking in the distance. Where's the love?

 

[Aaron McGuire]

She's no Jim Kirk.

Aaron McGuire

 

[JoeZhang]

When the SW books killed Chewbacca, I remember all sorts of news coverage. The deaths of Superman and Captain America were also both news-worthy events.

But the death of Janeway...?

I hear crickets chirping and a dog barking in the distance. Where's the love?

If you want people to take your death seriously, don't have the dead person having a conversation with a god-like being straight away after...

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Like her or hate her, Janeway simply isn't as well known as Chewbacca, Superman, or Captain America. If it was Spock, Dr. McCoy or even Scotty, then there would have been coverage. Janeway? Only the Trekkies care.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

In the case of Superman, DC Comics issued a press release, and it hit on a really slow news day. Chewie's death, like Superman's, got some media play before the book in question came out.

Captain America's death, like Janeway's death, was kept under wraps until the story hit store shelves. But Captain America is an American icon. Janeway, no offense, isn't.

But there's another difference. Marvel promoted the hell out of Captain America's death after the fact. Ed Brubacker gave interviews. There were tie-ins. Captain America's death was an event.

By contrast, Pocket Books did zero promotion on Before Dishonor. Outside the internet message boards, did anyone even know Janeway was in the book? I'd doubt it.

So, it's not that there's no Janeway love in the media. It's that Pocket didn't give the media anything to love. The media doesn't give buzz to something they don't care about -- or know about.

 

[Steve Roby]

If you want people to take your death seriously, don't have the dead person having a conversation with a god-like being straight away after...

Like her or hate her, Janeway simply isn't as well known as Chewbacca, Superman, or Captain America.

Yep. First, we don't know that she's dead and gone for good, and having her chat with a Q after her alleged death is a long way from being dead and gone for good.

Second, for everyone who's seen an episode of Voyager, there are hundreds of people, if not thousands, who've seen Star Wars. Star Wars is more popular and widely known than Star Trek. By a hell of a lot. It's a fact.

Everyone saw Star Wars, not just the science fiction fans. Voyager was not the same kind of pop culture phenomenon at all (nor was DS9 or Enterprise). Star Trek peaked in mass awareness and popularity with the movies and TNG, and Voyager struggled to keep a share of that audience. It was never an event show that nonfans were going to get into in a big way. And the books sell to a small percentage of the people who watched the show on TV (and a smaller number of people than buy Star Wars novels -- read the Locus bestseller lists).

What happens in the books is important to us. It's not important to everyone else. Hell, there are people who are concerned about the dubstep scene's split into big dumb crowdpleasing club bangers from the likes of Caspa and Rusko on the one hand and abstract minimal techno-influenced music from people like 2562 and Scuba on the other. Do you expect to see that get major press coverage? No, because the number of people who care is too small. Same story here.

ETA: Allyn's point about promotion is a very good one.

 

[Christopher]

Second, for everyone who's seen an episode of Voyager, there are hundreds of people, if not thousands, who've seen Star Wars. Star Wars is more popular and widely known than Star Trek. By a hell of a lot. It's a fact.

Than Star Trek? I don't think so. Everyone knows "Beam me up, Scotty" and "Ahead warp factor one," at least as well as they know "May the Force be with you."

But better known than Voyager? Definitely yes. VGR was a UPN show. It wasn't even carried in every market in the country, and in many markets it was aired in the middle of the night. To most of the country, it's just one of the "other" Trek shows, the ones that don't have the guy with the pointy ears or the bald guy and the robot.

Years ago, I went out to LA to pitch to DS9, and I stayed with a cousin of mine who's in the film industry (he runs the company that provides bicycle and skateboard equipment/stunt riders/etc. for movies and TV shows). He didn't even know what DS9 or VGR were, or that they were part of the same franchise as Star Trek.

 

[Stevil2001]

If I remember right, didn't the destruction of the TARDIS in The Shadows of Avalon get some play in the media in the U.K.?

 

[Sci]

Are you seriously going to argue that the death of a character on a low-rated TV series that was more famous for starring Jeri Ryan's breasts than it was for anything else is really comparable to the deaths of a supporting character from one of the most popular film series of all time or to the deaths of iconic superheros who have been around and been popular for the better part of the 20th Century?

 

[Smiley]

We've already had McCoy die (twice!) in Provenance of Shadows, and hardly any buzz occurred for him. Really, since Spock, Kirk, and Trip have all come back to life in one form or another, death in Star Trek is not going to mean as much to the person on the street as it will in other franchises.

 

[LightningStorm]

Second, for everyone who's seen an episode of Voyager, there are hundreds of people, if not thousands, who've seen Star Wars. Star Wars is more popular and widely known than Star Trek. By a hell of a lot. It's a fact.

Than Star Trek? I don't think so. Everyone knows "Beam me up, Scotty" and "Ahead warp factor one," at least as well as they know "May the Force be with you."

But better known than Voyager? Definitely yes. VGR was a UPN show. It wasn't even carried in every market in the country, and in many markets it was aired in the middle of the night.

QFT!

I'd like to see what sort of 'facts' are had that attempt to prove Star Wars is more popular than Star Trek. I'd venture to say they are about equal in popularity/recognition. If either one has a lead at all it is a slim one, certainly not "by a hell of a lot."

To most of the country, it's just one of the "other" Trek shows, the ones that don't have the guy with the pointy ears or the bald guy and the robot.

Ah, but Voyager did have a guy with pointy ears and bald guy...no robot though.

We've already had McCoy die (twice!) in Provenance of Shadows, and hardly any buzz occurred for him. Really, since Spock, Kirk, and Trip have all come back to life in one form or another, death in Star Trek is not going to mean as much to the person on the street as it will in other franchises.

True enough, but Superman is back too. And I'd bet the farm that Captain America will be back as well -- if he's not already.

 

[The Laughing Vulcan]

Star Wars is more of a global phemonenon, mostly because it is such a visual form. In a way it transcends language. Not so much Star Trek which is a more verbal piece. If we're comparing the two, then in English territories they will carry equal weight, but in non-English territories, while 'May The Force Be With You' and 'Beam Me Up' will be equally well recognised, more people will have seen Star Wars.

 

[LightningStorm]

Star Wars is more of a global phemonenon, mostly because it is such a visual form. In a way it transcends language. Not so much Star Trek which is a more verbal piece. If we're comparing the two, then in English territories they will carry equal weight, but in non-English territories, while 'May The Force Be With You' and 'Beam Me Up' will be equally well recognised, more people will have seen Star Wars.

I still don't think that's the case. I'd like to see some actual 'facts' on the issue rather than our musings based purely on assumptions.

 

[Dayton Ward]

Well, courtesy of Worldwide Box Office, here's one possible indication:

RANK WORLD B.O. (in millions)
0007 $ 925.5 Star Wars: Episode I - The Phantom Menace (1999)
0016 $ 848.5 Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith (2005)
0019 $ 798.0 Star Wars (1977)
0032 $ 649.7 Star Wars: Episode II - Attack of the Clones (2002)
0042 $ 572.9 Star Wars: Episode VI - Return of the Jedi (1983)
0047 $ 538.2 Star Wars: Episode V - The Empire Strikes Back (1980)

0512 $ 146.0 Star Trek: First Contact (1996)
0537 $ 139.0 Star Trek: The Motion Picture (1979)
0559 $ 133.0 Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home (1986)
0612 $ 120.0 Star Trek: Generations (1994)
0653 $ 112.5 Star Trek: Insurrection (1998)
0751 $ 97.0 Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan (1982)
0752 $ 96.9 Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country (1991)
0825 $ 87.1 Star Trek III: The Search for Spock (1984)
1102 $ 63.0 Star Trek V: The Final Frontier (1989)
1125 $ 61.1 Star Trek: Nemesis (2002)

This of course doesn't take into account that Trek is primarily a product of TV, which is why I qualified with "one possible indication"

 

[LightningStorm]

This of course doesn't take into account that Trek is primarily a product of TV, which is why I qualified with "one possible indication"

That and I suppose I'm talking more about recognition, rather than how many people watch/see them. I know many people who don't like or watch either but absolutely know the popular things about them. Names like Kirk, Spock, Darth Vader, Princess Leia (sp?), Enterprise, The Force, Light Sabre, Picard... etc. non fans know of these things.

 

[Dayton Ward]

^ Well, unless somebody's planning on doing a global geek census, I don't think we'll ever have demonstrable proof of that kind of thing.

So, we're stuck with cold, hard numbers.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

We've already had McCoy die (twice!) in Provenance of Shadows, and hardly any buzz occurred for him. Really, since Spock, Kirk, and Trip have all come back to life in one form or another, death in Star Trek is not going to mean as much to the person on the street as it will in other franchises.

Same goes for DC and Marvel comics. Almost everyone has died at least once at this point and most, if not all of them, have come back to life. If Captain America doesn't return, I'll eat my hat collection (and I really do have a hat collection).

 

[Smiley]

We've already had McCoy die (twice!) in Provenance of Shadows, and hardly any buzz occurred for him. Really, since Spock, Kirk, and Trip have all come back to life in one form or another, death in Star Trek is not going to mean as much to the person on the street as it will in other franchises.

Same goes for DC and Marvel comics. Almost everyone has died at least once at this point and most, if not all of them, have come back to life. If Captain America doesn't return, I'll eat my hat collection (and I really do have a hat collection).

The point is more for SW than the comics characters. Chewie is never coming back. However, the comics characters at least have the decency to get killed in their own medium. Janeway's death occurred offscreen, so many fans of the show probably don't know about it. This goes back to promotion again.

Assuming that it will be undone before the year is over, it's probably best not to publicize Janeway's death too much. Even if she were gone for good, I'd rather have it be a genuine surprise than a hyped-up media event.

 

[JoeZhang]

If I remember right, didn't the destruction of the TARDIS in The Shadows of Avalon get some play in the media in the U.K.?

Never heard of it - google tells me it's a novel. Nobody besides spotters and the script writters looking for idea care about who novels, I'd doubt it would get much play in the press....

 

[KRAD]

I always took a cynical view of the killing of Chewbacca myself. It gives the people producing the Star Wars novels the opportunity to create the illusion of change while simultaneously getting rid of a character who's extremely difficult to write properly in prose.