No Klingons?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Enterprise' started by Bry_Sinclair, Oct 9, 2011.

  1. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Would Enterprise have worked if they'd left out the Klingons? I know that they are a staple part of all things Trek, but I have found the Klingons to be a hugely over-used species.

    Before Enterprise came out, I'm sure it had been established that first contact with the Klingons hadn't been until 2218 (or some time around then), and I think they should have left that as it was. Instead focus on other established (or new) races that would eventually go on to have a significant role in the universe.

    For example, in "Broken Bow", the alien who was shot trying to escape the Suliban could have been an Andorian (they too are a 'warrior' culture), with a large empire of their own and hostilities with various other races closeby. Future Klingon episodes could have been given to other races (another example could be in "Marauders", the bad guys could instead have been Orion pirates).

    Just a thought.
     
  2. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I'm pretty sure that 2218 date is conjecture from the old Star Trek Chronology book, which some fans were furious to see contradicted even though it came with a disclaimer warning that such things were likely to happen!

    I personally enjoyed most Klingon ENT episodes.
     
  3. Skywalker

    Skywalker Admiral Admiral

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    I think the show would have been fine, yeah. But I was never bothered by their presence. Some people seemed to get all up in arms about their making first contact with humanity in the 2150s and that first contact not being "disastrous" as Picard described it in TNG. But IIRC it was never actually said on-screen that first contact with the Klingons occurred in 2218.

    In my opinion, from the perspective of a man living two hundred years after the fact, the events of 2151-2155 could be lumped together given those were the earliest days of interaction between humans and Klingons. And I can't think of many things much more disastrous than the entire Klingon species being threatened with extinction due to a pandemic that would have never happened if the Klingons hadn't met humans.
     
  4. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I wasn't outraged or furious to see the Klingons in ENT, I just thought the creators were playing it safe by using them and not developing other races. Which became hugely apparent when they brought the Ferengi in during S1, then the Borg in S2.

    Going back to where it all began should have left them with a huge blank canvas on with to create something new, but instead they just seemed to repeat old encounters and ideas.

    If a new Trek series is made, I would love to see it with as little Klingon involvement as possible. But that's just me.
     
  5. ChristopherPike

    ChristopherPike Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I guess we'll be finding soon how safe J.J. Abrams will playing with them for the next film. They're bound to feature as the main enemy I'd imagine. The Deleted Scene where two were interrogating Nero seemed to be hedging its bets between something that fits into canon and another new look. Maybe even respectful of what came before, in that we can assume they now wear helmets with ornimental ridges on them, to compensate for no longer having any.

    I wasn't bothered that Klingons featured but they were a bit overused, and despite how Enterprise is regarded in the future, they can't take away the fact "Broken Bow" established first contact with them. It became pretty much the reason the NX-01 was launched ahead of schedule. Bumps or no bumps, TNG forward indicated they had them as far back as Kahless... so there wasn't exactly much choice in how Klingons appeared. The best they could do is observe canon with the teeth-sharpening practice and a more Barbarian/Mongolian look to their clothing. Animal furs, furry trims and brown leathers, over the chainmail of later years. Although they went with somekind of reflective silver garment in the mix too.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2011
  6. xortex

    xortex Commodore Commodore

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    Unfortunately Brannon Braga was very indefinate and uncertain about what he wanted to do because the beaurocracy (politics in hell) was so thick (Berman's suite's were at least an inch of steel plating and all slicked down) so even if he tryed he'd be hitting a slippery brick wall as Berman was hiring guys like Manny Coto over him.
     
  7. JiNX-01

    JiNX-01 Admiral Admiral

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    Would have worked for me. I was sick of the Klingons long before Enterprise came along.
     
  8. RaymondJames

    RaymondJames Captain Captain

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    I never have been an Enterprise fan for various reasons. One being that the cast/crew never clicked for me as a whole. I disliked species like the Klingons being on Enterprise. It would have just been niceifthey stuck with Xindi, Andorians and things that hadn't been explored all that much.
     
  9. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Worf In the 23rd Century Premium Member

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    They spent some time developing the Vulcans and the Andorians. They also spent time on the Suliban and the Xindi. So I dont see how using the Klingons prevented them from using or developing "new" races. If anyone overused the Klingons it was DS9 and that was at the expense of the Bajorans (and Cardassians).
    11 Klingon episodes out of 98 episodes Enterprise 11.2%
    49 Klingon episodes out of 176 episodes DS9 27.5%
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2011
  10. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

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    IIRC, the 2218 date was calculated from a throwaway line from TOS that could have been interpreted a number of ways (i.e. nobody ever outright said that 2218 was the date of first contact).

    Now with that being said, I also think that it was a mistake to use the Klingons, for many reasons. They had already been overused in the three previous Trek series, and now this is the first alien we see in the new show? And that he was a TNG-style Klingon instead of a TOS-style one, no less?

    They also made this big deal that it was the first time any humans had ever seen a Klingon, and that it was a big deal that he had to get back to Qo'nos. But really, what was the big deal? Nothing that happened in "Broken Bow" really had any affect on the rest of the show. And then to top it off, there was a complete ripoff of TNG with a Klingon named Duras and a ship called the Bor'tas!

    It would have worked far better had Klaang been a Romulan, and the TCW would have worked far better if they took the JJ approach (because of FutureGuy's time meddling, history is changed and things could have ended up differently. Then they wouldn't have had to worry why things aren't the same by TOS...but that's another topic entirely)

    Well, considering the buffoonish way that the Klingons were portrayed in that episode, they might as well have been Ferengi :)
     
  11. Skywalker

    Skywalker Admiral Admiral

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    And didn't the majority of those episodes happen during the last four seasons, after Worf joined the crew? Yeesh.
     
  12. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Vice Admiral Admiral

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    That would have really annoyed me, as in "Balance of Terror" I'm pretty sure it was stated that no one had seen a Romulan, so the image on the viewscreen (of a man who could have been Spock's father) was a shock to all of them.

    Maybe they could have used the Kzinti or even a Caitian, would be interesting to see how they did a felinoid.
     
  13. Kelso

    Kelso Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Screw that. I love Klingons.
     
  14. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I think you missed my point. I meant that because of the machinations of FutureGuy (who, years after the fact, B&B stated that he was "probably" a Romulan), that humanity would see what a Romulan looks like, and therefore history would be changed. "Balance of Terror" would take place in the original universe like it always did, but the universe of ENT would go off in a different direction (a la Star Trek '09). Just replace boring Klaang (and the rest of the already-uverused Klingons) with a Romulan.
     
  15. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It's a bit worse than that: Okuda and pals quote the supposed throwaway line they used, from "Day of the Dove" - but the line never was uttered in that episode, or any other!

    The old Spaceflight Chronology did suggest a first contact in what by modern reckoning (that is, ignoring some key dates of the book and substituting ones that match modern evidence) would be the early decades of the 23rd century. The writers of that book pulled that particular timing out of their asses, though. It did inspire RPG writers and John M. Ford in creating some pretty good Klingon pseudohistory; perhaps the Okudas were influenced as well? It may also have played a role in Spock in ST6:TUC speaking of "almost seventy years of unremitting hostility": either that's a direct Star Trek Chronology reference, or then the subtle influence of the Spaceflight Chronology.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  16. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Err.... the Star Trek Spaceflight Chronology (1979) puts first contact with the Klingons in 2151. A damn good guess, if you ask me!
     
  17. ChristopherPike

    ChristopherPike Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Really? Sure you're not confusing that with a few updated pages, Titan's Star Trek Magazine did a couple of issues ago?
     
  18. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Nope, the original 1979 one from my shelf. Page 152.

    But the meeting itself is a subspace radio confrontation between the USS Sentry and the Klingon ship Devisor, over an unknown shuttle full of "enemies of the Empire"
     
  19. ChristopherPike

    ChristopherPike Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Nice find! :techman:

    ENT kind of homag├ęd that during "Judgment" then. The NX-01 picks up enemies of the Empire and things seriously deteriorated from there. Constantly sending Duras to bring back Archer dead or alive. Then the Augment incident happens, retrieved biological samples decimating their society at worse or an infection that's cured in time, at best.
     
  20. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Worf In the 23rd Century Premium Member

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    But B&B never saw any TOS nor read a single book about Star Trek! How can this be?????