Niners Unite...around Babylon 5!

[PKTrekGirl]

**** PLEASE READ THIS POST BEFORE PARTICIPATING IN THIS THREAD****

Thanks, gang!

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Okay...so at long last, we are starting The DS9 Forum's First Official Babylon 5 Marathon. For anyone who doesn't know what I am talking about when I say that, a thorough discussion of the idea took place HERE .

But basically, what is going on here is that several of us got together and decided it would be fun to watch Babylon 5 together and discuss it as a group with the friends we have made in the DS9 Forum. This thread will be completely dedicated to that discussion.

If you are new to this forum, you are welcome to join with us at any time along the way, but please keep in mind that we are starting from the beginning and watching the show in order at a rate of about 2 episodes a week (although this number may be adjusted by group concensus later), and at any given time, the discussion will mainly be centered around the episodes for that week.

Please take a moment so that you will understand what this thread is and is not:

What this thread IS::
1. A place for those participating in the marathon to discuss the the scifi show Babylon 5, with emphasis on the episodes we are watching as a group at any given time.

2. Open to all who want to participate in the marathon, as long as participation is done in good faith and with an intention toward joining the group as a more or less regular participant.

What this thread is NOT:
1. A place to start any sort of DS9 v. B5 'war'. For example:

a) This is NOT the place to discuss who 'stole' from who.

b) This is NOT the place to needlessly trash B5 through constant negative comparisons to DS9 simply because you have an ax to grind with JMS or whatever.

2. This is NOT the place to make 'hit and run' remarks about B5. This thread is intended as an ongoing long-term discussion between a more or less fixed group of posters. It is NOT a general thread about the pros and cons of B5. If you want to post your ideas about B5, but are not interested in doing the marathon with us, PLEASE go post your thoughts in the Scifi and Fantasy Forum. That is where general threads about B5 go. This is NOT a general thread about B5, but a focused discussion for the participants in the marathon.

I have cleared this thread with both Bonz and Neroon, but our goal here is NOT to take away 'business' from SFF. It is to have a discussion among the Niners (and SB ) who want to participate.


A Note About Spoilers:
Most of the folks who have expressed interest in this marathon have seen all of B5 at least once, but I *do* believe that there are a couple of folks who want to participate who will be viewing B5 for the first time.

In solidarity with the B5 newbies, some of whom were talked into trying the show by *US* , let's be sensitive and use spoiler code where necessary. Basically, think of it this way: If you wouldn't know something yet as a n00b watching the show for the first time, it belongs in spoiler code for purposes of this thread. Pay special attention to this when it comes to episodes like Babylon Squared. Let 'em be confused for a couple of seasons - it's part of the experience!

Okay, now that I have the 'mod stuff' out of the way, on with the show!

This week, our episode is Midnight on the Firing Line. We are only doing one episode this week so that those who want to start with The Gathering (pilot movie) can do so.

I'm thinking the weeks will go from Sunday to Sunday from now on, so the next episodes, Soul Hunter and Born to the Purple will be be the episodes starting this coming Sunday.

So let's get watchin'!!!

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Special Note for the B5 "Veterans": In an effort to keep the discussion fresh, even though we've seen all this before, I'm wondering if we might think of ways to make it more interesting for us B5 Vets.

One thing I thought of is for each of us to "take" a character and be responsible for writing *in particular* about that character's part in the episodes we are discussing. You could still write about anything you wanted...but you would be sorta "responsible" for discussing your character's progress and growth.

Just an idea...lemme know what you think of it, or suggest other ideas if you like!

But if we do it, I get to do Londo. Or Delenn.

 

[Lindley]

You know, I haven't watched any Babylon 5 in.....almost two years, now. Certainly none since Richard Biggs passed on.

I think I may take part in this little shindig.

 

[OmahaStar]

Posted by Vash:


One thing I thought of is for each of us to "take" a character and be responsible for writing *in particular* about that character's part in the episodes we are discussing. You could still write about anything you wanted...but you would be sorta "responsible" for discussing your character's progress and growth.

Well, I think it would kinda be appropriate if I talked about Jane. Who else has all of her dialogue memorized?

 

[PKTrekGirl]

Oh wow! Cool guys! It would be great if you would participate!

And OS, you taking Jane is pretty much a given.

 

[Orac Zen]

Posted by Vash:
It is to have a discussion among the Niners (and SB ) who want to participate.

There you go again.

I'm in. And I like the ground rules. There have been way too many stupid "comparisons" between series and I for one am not interested in seeing any of that crap here. Let's just watch the show, talk about it, and have fun.

Unfortunately the whole annoying RL thing will get in the way for me occasionally, but it will be kept to a minimum. Otherwise I'd be grabbing G'Kar for the character discussion idea. But whatever happens I'm really looking forward to this. Bring it on.

 

[Evil Twin]

Well, it's been over a year since my first run through the show so I guess I'm game for another! *pops in The Gathering*

Oh, and can I call Vir?

 

[PKTrekGirl]

^ (To SB) Well, I think all of us will have RL concerns once in a while. I just suggested the character thing so that when we wrote, we would have at least one 'built in' focus. Just to make sure the discussion stays varied.

You can do G'Kar. And really, if we have enough people, there is no reason why two people can't do a character - especially ones like Londo and G'Kar, because there will be so much to write about them.

And Evil Twin, you can certainly take Vir!

 

[Blade Runner]

^ Nearly two years since I first made my way through the show so I'm definately in.

I've managed to convince Llanita to get the first season and join us. I cannot believe someone actually listened to my advice. I just hope she enjoys it.

Oh, and can I take <span class="spoiler"><font class="small">Spoiler:</font><hr /><span>Sheridan</span><hr /></span> from season 2 onwards? Please? I wouldn't mind sharing the character with someone as there will be so much to discuss. Maybe a newbie could also write for him?

 

[eastman23]

I'll just pop in with comments on random things. I work best that way.

Either that, or I'll just copy comments I made in the bar threads on my original run though to here.

 

[Ohappydagger]

Oh boy! Well I might join you, but not til you get through Season 1. I lurve B5 but I... I just can't put myself through S1 again! Cough. Okay, yes, carry on! I've been meaning to dig back into the B5.

 

[Orac Zen]

Posted by Steven:
Either that, or I'll just copy comments I made in the bar threads on my original run though to here.

That's called cheating.

So long as you don't start bleating about credit card bills or equally irrelevant trivialities...


Okay, Vash - G'Kar it is.

 

[Blade Runner]

^ Ahem... what's wrong with season one?!

 

[Evil Twin]

Wow, only 15 minutes into "The Gathering" and the Shadows have already infiltrated the station! They work fast! Gotta love it.

 

[doubleohfive]

Posted by Evil Twin:
Wow, only 15 minutes into "The Gathering" and the Shadows have already infiltrated the station! They work fast! Gotta love it.

As I mentioned on someone's LJ today ... of course this marathon comes up when I'm just abotu to finish the run through the whole series I started back in December!

I don;t know if i have it in me to redo the whole show!!

 

[OmahaStar]

Midnight on the Firing Line

Well, now ... For the first episode, JMS' writing is slightly schizo ... He doesn't seem to be able to decide whether to deal out excessive exposition ("The first time we met your people...") or hold everything close to the vest ("tell them it's the--").

Fortunately, I know this passes fairly quickly.

This episode is set some time after the pilot movie, The Gathering, and sees a few major cast changes. Departing are Johnny Sekka (Dr. Kyle), Tamlyn Tomita (Laurel), and Blaire Baron (Sykes).

Among the new characters introduced are:

Vir Cotto, played by Stephen Furst

Talia Winters, played by Andrea Thompson

Susan Ivanova, played by Claudia Christian

and of course Jane Nolahznahm, played by Maggie Egan

To start things out, right from the beginning, JMS is laying things out in the open for viewers to grab onto. He's already guiding Sinclair on his ultimate path, beginning with the "wise old man" lecture to Susan. "Ignore the propeganda. Focus on what you see."

Looking back on this scene, not for the first time, it's rather easy to make the leap from commanding the station to Sinclair's FuturePast.

We're also introduced to the idea of Psi abilities in species other than Human. In this case, it's Centauri, via Londo's prophetic dream about his future. He is absolutely certain that 20 years from now, he and G'Kar will die with their hands at each others' throats. He just doesn't know the circumstances.

It's also touching to see that, at least in this early stage, Londo does still have compassion for others. I'll miss that.

Note to the costume designer - What is with the hats you've put on the extras in the Susan-Talia bar scene? Oy vey! I'm expecting Guinan to join them any second now!

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January, 2258. Did you vote? We here at ISN want to remind you that your vote counts! Coming in a landslide victory was incumbant Louis Santiago, dashing challenger Marie Crane's hopes for victory.

In other news, Senator Hammond of Texas has proposed a new bill that would officially change the government's name from Earth Central to the shortened EarthGov. Early predictions indicate the change may come before the end of the year.

Turning our focus outward, a follow-up to an earlier report on the Centauri colony Ragesh 3. As you may recall, the colony was attacked early this week by forces from the Narn Regime. Sources indicate the message read by colony representative Carn Mollari was faked, and part of an unprovoked attack. Narn forces have withdrawn from the colony. Tune in at 11 Earth Standard Time for more detailed information from our correspondant, Alison Higgins.

And now for this week's report on space station Babylon 5. Out on the fringes of space, Babylon 5 stands alone, forced to defend itself against enemies who prey mercilessly on the defenseless. The station is fortunate indeed to have Jeffrey Sinclair as its commanding officer. This week, Commander Sinclair was able to stop raiders who had preyed on shipping lines, destroying dozens of transports.

The last transport was carrying five hundred men, women, and children, and without the Commander's forces, it would surely have been destroyed. The thanks of a grateful Earth go out to the crew of that shining beacon in space, Babylon 5.

And now, a word from our sponsor.

 

[Evil Twin]

Just to backtrack a little here, I just got done with "The Gathering". Sure, there's a lot to dislike about it, but what are things you like about it? For me, three things spring to mind.

- The Centauri are my favorite of the alien species, and as such I really like the conversation between Londo and Garibaldi in the Zocalo about the decline of the Republic.

-Certainly, Sinclair's monologue about the Battle of the Line. I can just imagine the psychological impact (frustration, feelings of inadequacy, etc.) that had on Earth in that they survived at the whim of the Minbari rather than truly having earned that survival. Note I don't use the word "victory" here.

-Sinclair BSing G'Kar about the tracking device towards the end still makes me chuckle. Gotta love Garibaldi's little "beep-beep" too. (Hmm, a hint at his love of Warner Brothers cartoons?) Good early example of JMS's quirky sense of humor.

 

[Lindley]

Senator Hammond of Texas

Anyway, just finished The Gathering myself. It's definitely better viewed first-----I recall being extremely unimpressed with it every time I tried to watch it while in a B5-high. Coming off a long dry spell, it's actually pretty decent.

My main complaint would be that it is simply too long. The story is really begging to be tightened up to maybe 60 commercial-free minutes.

Those original weapons......to quote a certain character who has not yet appeared, oy.

But a pretty decent introduction to the whole deal, all things considered. Especially considering the things I have the benefit of knowing it will eventually lead to between Lyta Alexander and Ambessador Kosh.

I'd like to take Commander Sinclair as my focus, at least for the time being. Everyone says the guy is wooden.....but he really isn't. There's a lot of subtlety to his performance here. I suspect he'd get along very well with EJO's Commander Adama, incidentally----they're the same type. (Damn rights issues-----just do a cross-franchise version of the Captain's Table already!)

Sinclair really embodies a man who is in a situation far over his head, and knows it. He starts as a confident commander, and over the course of the movie finds himself continually cut down, until he's left with nothing but his survivor's guilt over the Battle of the Line. He's even willing to become a sacrificial lamb to avert a war at that point----not out of bravery, but out of secret shame.

His girlfriend----sorry, I forget her name already----talks some sense into him. Or maybe just gives him the nudge he needs to talk sense into himself. In any case, he overcomes his weakness, takes charge of the situation, and reasserts himself as a strong, capable leader. Full circle----plus a little. I suspect this trial left Sinclair stronger than when it began.

The only obvious writing flaw was with regards to Laurel. Yeah, lady, you haven't broken the rules in a long time.....except for the coffee beans you mentioned five minutes ago!

 

[PKTrekGirl]

Well, I just got done watching Midnight on the Firing Line.

Actually, I think this is a pretty good episode. It does a good job of setting up the series in general, but the Londo/G'Kar relationship in particular. Right from the very start the Centauri and the Narn are at each other's throats. Gotta love it! They don't waste any time.

Best Londo Line of the Ep: "Do you know what your problem is, Mr. Garabaldi? You're not a people person."



I also really liked Sinclair in this episode - very much in control of the situation. And they did a good job of setting up the issue of Ivanova v. the telepaths as well.

I guess I'll have to watch The Gathering now...cus now I'm in the mood to watch some serious B5!

 

[Orac Zen]

I watched both versions of "The Gathering" today. The first reminded me why I was so intrigued when I first saw it. The second reminded me how much better it ought to have been in the first place. For all that it's a pretty decent pilot that does as good a job as possible of establishing a completely new universe and several of the main players.

Two scenes added to the episode make a lot of difference. There's a scene with Delenn and Carolyn in which the latter pays out on Delenn for not supporting Sinclair. It made Carolyn seem much less of a cypher than she did in the first version. And there was the bit added to the scene where Sinclair talks about having been on the Line. In the first version the conversation starts with Carolyn saying "You were on the Line?" - just like that. The whole thing came out of nowhere and diluted the impact of the scene. The bit added in for the revised version gives the scene a lot more bite and helps it make a lot more sense.

I still love the Lyta / G'Kar scene. I may as well say it from the outset: With the possible exception of Kerr Avon (from Blakes 7) G'Kar is my favourite ever SF character and one of my favourite characters in all TV. His journey parallels that of Mollari and IMHO is even more interesting. Here he's the quintessential angry warrior - determined to do whatever is necessary and deal with anyone necessary to advance the cause of the Narn. He's intriguing from day one. And "Would you prefer to be conscious or unconscious during the mating?" followed by Lyta's expression of complete amazement cracks me up every time.

I like Sinclair. He's not so much wooden as understated, and I think that's a command style that takes a bit of getting used to. I was always kinda iffy about Garibaldi, and of course the others aren't around long enough to worry about too much. On the whole, an episode I liked then and like now.

As for "Midnight on the Firing Line"... I'll get to that later. But I already remember my favourite exchange from the episode, one of my favourite moments in the series:

Kosh: "They are alone. They are a dying people. We should let them pass."
Sinclair: "Who - the Narn or the Centauri?"
Kosh: "Yes."

Sums the Vorlon up, doesn't it?


Geez, I love this show. Thanks for thinking of and arranging this, Vash.

 

[Blade Runner]

Hey! I've been left behind. We UK Fivers have to sleep you know...