I just want the Special Longer Version on Blu-ray.
Nimoy: TMP Wasn?t Really A Trek Movie
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I just want the Special Longer Version on Blu-ray.
..and fanwanked other aspects without much concern for the original intent—which is pretty well-documented.
I've seen all of Trek multiple times and I find TMP pretty much unwatchable. I intend to try again in another few years.
I was for thinking about TMP the other day when picking a color for my phone, so I picked white. The color of the past's view of the future.
I was for thinking about TMP the other day when picking a color for my phone, so I picked white. The color of the past's view of the future.
Do you have any images of this sign? I'm always interested in seeing Phase II stuff, particularly if it actually appeared in later Trek productions.
Why is that a problem? Wise financed the DE, so he would have signed off on everything. I don't see how any of the fan wankier aspects hurt the DE in the least.
No way Wise personally financed the DE; Paramount did.
My understanding is that the DE was primarily Fein and Matessino's baby. Beyond them approaching Paramount (for the money) and Wise (for his imprimatur), I've never been clear on the extent of Wise's day-to-day involvement in the DE project. With all due respect to Robert Wise, he suffered a stroke not long before the DE project and, although he seemed to retain his faculties until his death in 2005, that had to curtail his participation in the project. No doubt he issued some notes, screened and approved the final cut, and recorded the commentary (where the effects of the stroke were clearly evident in Wise's speech) but is there any objective evidence of his participation beyond that? Sure the DE team had access to the original storyboards and notes to recreate the original intent as well as possible, but that's pretty far from Wise punching a clock daily on the project.
I'm not trying to take the piss out of the DE, which I rather like overall with some reservations. I don't find it the night-and-day revelation that many do; most of the pacing, perceived slowness (the DE is actually longer), and stilted performances (Shatner's wink and "Oh my God!" are notable omissions) of the theatrical cut are still present. But I think it highly unlikely that Wise wanted the TOS Galileo shuttlecraft inserted into Starfleet HQ or the shots of Decker and Ilia flirting moved to the Enterprise departure scene.
I compare the TMP DE to the Superman II: Richard Donner Cut, where Donner (obviously still bitter about his ouster from that production 25-30 years later) agreed to sign off on the final product but entrusted the project to Michael Thau, with results much more wildly uneven than the TMP DE. These direct-to-video projects were cash-in opportunities (the TMP DE almost certainly sold better than the theatrical cut would have on DVD), not bonafide "restorations" and should probably be viewed with that in mind. Worthy projects but let's not delude ourselves into believing that these are the films that would have been released in 1979.
The special effects were only rendered at 480i.
since I'm not a technical guy, I assume that means they can't adapt them to a better resolution/format/whatever blu-ray technically means in comparison to a DVD?
Well he seems quite proud of the Director's Edition in the booklet for the DVD. Certainly he makes it sound like he oversaw the whole thing.
To say that TMP "isn't Star Trek" when it lifts directly from two or three of the most popular episodes (add with Run Silent, Run Deep and press "PUREE") is a little... Well, illogical.
I enjoy all of the TOS movies. I can watch more of V than I used to be able to and less of VI.
But between I and II I'm set. TMP has all my Corbomite / Changeling / One of Our Planets is Missing wonder and mystery. TWOK has my Doomsday Machine / Where No Man Has Gone Before / Ultimate Computer two-fisted action.
These are the two TOS movies I watch over and over and over (and over).
I enjoy all of the TOS movies. I can watch more of V than I used to be able to and less of VI.
But between I and II I'm set. TMP has all my Corbomite / Changeling / One of Our Planets is Missing wonder and mystery. TWOK has my Doomsday Machine / Where No Man Has Gone Before / Ultimate Computer two-fisted action.
These are the two TOS movies I watch over and over and over (and over).
Yes, and from the Vulcan's mouth no less.
how many TOS episodes were about the crew watching expensive special effects on a viewscreen and acting coldly and awkwardly toward each other?
TOS was fast-paced, warm, and fun.
TMP was slow, cold, and pretentious.
In a way TMP was a portent of things to come in popular SF: the idea that situations and characters change and don't remain the same. And that may be part of what bothers some people. They wanted the TOS characters and their situation to be exactly as it was in TOS. But Roddenberry and Wise opted to acknowledge the fact the cast (and thus the characters) had visibly aged. In extent the situation had changed as well.
Yet by the end of the film things have reverted pretty much back to the status quo: the familiar crew were back in their comfortable places, in sync with each other and set for new voyages to the final frontier.
Then TWOK resets the circumstances again. But this time none of it really rings true. The characters are now significantly older and yet they're all trying to fit in together again. And they're no longer on the final frontier. Instead they're training cadets to take their place.
For me it doesn't get back to be (somewhat) familiar Star Trek until TFF even as disappointing as that film is. But even then there's the taint of everything thats happened in TSFS and TVH---after all that it really beggars credibility that they should all end up together again as if nothing has happened.
For me TMP really is the last time we see our heroes even remotely as we remembered them in TOS albeit with a brief period of being out-of-sync with each other.
Yet by the end of the film things have reverted pretty much back to the status quo: the familiar crew were back in their comfortable places, in sync with each other and set for new voyages to the final frontier.
Then TWOK resets the circumstances again. But this time none of it really rings true. The characters are now significantly older and yet they're all trying to fit in together again. And they're no longer on the final frontier. Instead they're training cadets to take their place.
For me it doesn't get back to be (somewhat) familiar Star Trek until TFF even as disappointing as that film is. But even then there's the taint of everything thats happened in TSFS and TVH---after all that it really beggars credibility that they should all end up together again as if nothing has happened.
For me TMP really is the last time we see our heroes even remotely as we remembered them in TOS albeit with a brief period of being out-of-sync with each other.
er, but as you say, TWOK changed things up quite a bit. More so than TMP in fact, much more so. Yet TWOK is much more popular.
I think the simpler explanation is that TMP is just a lousy movie.
I've addressed this a number of times before. Regardless of what Wise signed off on in the DE, I have interviews with Wise from right after TMP was released where he says rather bluntly the things he would have done if he'd had a chance to tighten the cut, and the DE isn't it. He said he would cut the film by 15 minutes—at minimum. Clearly he wasn't happy with the pacing of the theatrical release. The DE is a bit tighter, but not tight enough, and certainly not tight in the way Wise wanted it when interviewed in 1980.
And you're right: a number of the DE changes are fan-wank nonsense that Wise wouldn't have cared a lick about. In fact, a few of them actually violate the intent of the original artists on the film, such as:
- Opening the wall of the airtram station, ignoring that it was designed to be the way to match a scrapped shot of its exterior—wasted effort on a scene that didn't need the help when many other scenes did need it.
- Changing San Francisco's skyline from what it was designed to be and adding a pointless on-time stardate chiron that's inconsistent with the rest of the film.
- Doing CGI figure replacements for matte shots where live action plates existed.
- Idiotically animating the points of light in the wingwalk scene "on twos", totally missing the fact that every other piece on animation in the film is shot "on ones".
- Totally mismatching the size of the V'ger energy bolts relative to the Earth's horizon.
- Doing the full V'ger reveal from the blandest angle possible, when there were storyboards that showed far more dramatic angles. (I also think they got V'ger's proportions wrong, as I've seen the Syd Mead elevation for it, and it's longer and not as "chubby" as the CGI version appears)
No. It was immediate and widespread upon the film's initial release in 1979.
Yes you could. The original first-run domestic release box office figure for TMP was 56 million dollars, not nearly enough to make a profit. The film earned its way to profitability over time.
No, it's not. Sure it can be as simple as perception, but it actually accomplishes most of what it sets out to do.
The thing is a lot depends on what you expect from the film as opposed to what it's aiming for.
I'm reminded of a friend who said he didn't enjoy Watchmen because it wasn't the kind of traditional superhero film he expected. But Watchmen was never meant to be that kind of film particularly considering its source materiel. So it isn't the film's failing that it wasn't what my friend expected because it wasn't trying to be that kind of movie. My friend expected something Watchmen was never going to deliver.
TMP was never meant to be a run-and-jump space adventure. And many of TOS' episodes, even some damn fine ones, were not run-and-jump adventures.
TWOK is more like a run-and-jump adventure, and it has some decent character moments because the characters are portrayed in a more familiar way. But at the core TWOK isn't as well thought or as credible (character wise) as TMP. THere is a lot of dumb thinking in TWOK.
But TWOK is like a lot of action films: if you have sufficient flash you can get away with a lot of nonsense.
And yet the film made decent money and is one of the better performing films in the franchise.
