Nimoy: TMP Wasn?t Really A Trek Movie

[TrekToday]

In a new interview on Hero Complex: The Show, Star Trek‘s Leonard Nimoy reminisces about: his work on Star Trek, Star Wars‘ influence on Star Trek, typecasting, A Woman Called Golda, Star Trek: The Motion Picture, Let That Be Your Last Battlefield, Spock and Zachary Quinto, Amok Time and the genesis of the Vulcan greeting. [...]

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[bbailey861]

Enjoyed that very much. Thanks for posting.

 

[Jedi Marso]

Good stuff.

Jeez, though, he's looking old.

 

[Iamnotspock]

Good stuff.

Jeez, though, he's looking old.

Well, he is eighty-one.

 

[SchwEnt]

I know what Nimoy is saying about TMP as far as the pace and 2001 aspirations. But I really disagree that's it not a ST movie.

It very much IS Star Trek, in that it explores the human condition and says something about what it means to be human. It's got some great ST story themes. Not only that, but it's the whole turning point of Spock's life journey, wherein he finally learns and accepts his unique Human/Vulcan identity. Nimoy doesn't get that part?

And after all the ST films to date, TMP is still one of my faves if for not other reason that it DOESN'T have a bad guy dastardly villain that must be defeated with kewl space battles with spaceships and splosions.

ST is SO much more than that and I'm REALLY tired of ST films resorting to that in every installment. I'll watch TMP over all the rest just for the change of pace.

 

[sonak]

I agree with Nimoy. TMP is nothing like TOS or the rest of the movies. It is more like a 2001 wannabe.

 

[Maurice]

How many times do they interview these guys to say the same old thing? I mean, really. He's said nothing new here that he hasn't said 20 times before.

 

[Potemkin_Prod]

How many times do they interview these guys to say the same old thing? I mean, really. He's said nothing new here that he hasn't said 20 times before.

Which is why I don't worry about going to conventions any more.

Honestly, I can't help but wonder if this is a jab at the late GR who took delight in jabbing the HB and LN Trek films before his passing.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

ST:TMP is pretty to look at, but pretty much a failure as a Star Trek movie - Nimoy's got that right.

 

[Gojira]

I understand what Nimoy means with TMP. I agree with him to the point that it was trying to be a space odyssey type of movie. But I do think they did get the characterizations correct especiallly Spock's growth as a character. Throughout the entire run of TOS Spock was at odds with his human half and even had a bit of disdain for humans. But in TMP and his encounter with V'ger and leaving the Kolinahr discipline was a big step in Spock accepting his human half.

 

[D Man]

His riff on Shatner at the end was great.

 

[T'Bonz]

Eh. TMP was very disappointing. Too much 2001 and too little Star Trek for my liking. WOK was much better, even if they broke my heart (temporarily) by killing off Spock.

 

[gottacook]

A few points:

1. TMP is not one of the movies for which Nimoy had a directing or writing credit, so he might be prone to criticize it for that reason alone. In addition, because he made his own "villainless" movie (TVH), he need not praise TMP for the merit accruing to such a thing.

2. The early magazine ad for TMP, the one where Roddenberry's credited as a co-writer along with Harold Livingston (but no Alan Dean Foster credit), explicitly says "A 23rd Century Odyssey Now" at the top; see the first Google Images result using that phrase. I think I would have enjoyed TMP if it had been even more of an "odyssey" than it turned out to be.

 

[J.T.B.]

TMP being a failure as "a Star Trek movie" implies that there was some of defined concept of what that would be, but there wasn't. TOS had a broad range of tones and styles, from straight action to melodrama to tongue-in-cheek. There was no single "quintessential" TOS episode; in fact TMP is often accused of being a re-tread of some TOS eps.

As far as the approach to the characters, having the old crew dynamic broken up and put back together was a perfectly valid choice for a feature, which, for all anyone knew at the time, could be the only big screen Star Trek ever. Having Kirk, Spock and company in the same positions as in the series could have been playing it too safe and rung false considering the time that had passed. The characters did act differently than we were used to in TOS but, considering TMP as standing alone, that is the way they should have been written to grow within that plot.

We all know how Star Wars had changed the game in 1977, and TMP does not follow that formula of successive action pieces. But "Close Encounters" was also a hugely successful SF movie that didn't follow that formula. And if there was ever a decade where a broad range of film types could have box office success, it was the '70s. And indeed, on those terms, TMP was very successful.

TMP may not work for everyone, it may not be a great film, but the idea that it violated some kind of Star Trek "essence" is just hindsight informed by 30 years of succeeding movies and series.

Justin

 

[Relayer1]

I thought it was the best of the movies in many ways - serious, considered, beautiful. I loved it.

 

[cbspock]

The characters return to their "series state" at the end of TMP. I always liked TMP. It was a chance to see the world of Star Trek for the first time with a budget.

The one criticism of the set design was that Enterprise was sterile, and no personal objects, etc were the the quarters. I guess people weren't paying attention to the story. The ship was being rushed out of Space Dock, crews were assigned quickly. No time to set up your quarters when the ship is leaving in 12 hours.

Another thing I liked was the scale of the movie. It did feel like a 2001 type of movie, and less "Star Wars" it was a bold move.

Star Trek has now turned into good guys vs. bad guys since Star Trek 2. If you watch the series, Star Trek didn't have many villains

It was also the only Trek film to feel like a real movie, and not an overblown Star Trek episode filmed for TV.

-Chris

 

[cbspock]

I think each of the movies had elements of what made Star Trek successful

TMP - was the region movie, the origin story for the movies to follow. Yes it was derivative of the Changeling, with a sprinkle of Doomsday Machine. It set the look for all the treks that followed. The whole Decker / Ilia thing became Riker / Troi in TNG. It alluded to what the characters were doing between the Enterprise coming home, and the movie open.

TWOK - Classic Star Trek. This had all the beats from the original series, great character moments, and a Starship battle to remember. Shades of Balance of Terror.

TSFS - Classic character movie. This showed the friendships between the characters in the movies series something that was a clear thread in the original series. ex. Bread and Circuses, Tholian Web, etc.

TVH- paid homage to all the classic Star Trek episodes where comedy was a hit. Piece of the Action, and Tribbles.

TFF - Yes, the movie had it's faults, not as bad as the TNG movies that followed. It still had some great character moments, and I think it was closer in style to the original series than the other movies. Maybe a little too 3rd season, than 2nd.

UC - Great wrap up of the original series, all the characters had something to do, and set up the connection between the two Trek series.

-Chris

 

[Greg Cox]

Star Trek has now turned into good guys vs. bad guys since Star Trek 2. If you watch the series, Star Trek didn't have many villains

Not sure that's entirely true. TOS was full of nefarious sorts up to no good: Dr. Tristan Adams, Roger Korby, Trelane, the Gorn, Khan, Kor, Sylvia in "Catspaw," Redjak (you don't get more villainous than Jack the Ripper!), Mudd, Koloth, the evil Romans in "Bread and Circuses," the assassin in "Journey to Babel," various bad guys in "Private Little War," the evil brains on Triskelion, Sargon and company, Nazis, Captain Ronald Tracy, Gorgon the friendly angel, the sadistic Platonians, "Lord Garth," Dr. Sevrin, Colonel Green, Janice Lester . . . .

And that's not even counting all the misguided, desperate aliens that threatened Kirk and crew in "A Taste of Armageddon," "Wink of an Eye," "Mark of Gideon," "The Cloud Minders," etc. And all the homicidal computers with delusions of grandeur.

Rarely did an episode go by that somebody wasn't capturing the landing party, threatening the Enterprise, and probably killing a few redshirts . . . .

Good times.

 

[Nighthawk]

The original story of Star Trek:TMP was called Star Trek: In Thy Image. Which was going to be the original pilot of the failed attempt to return Star Trek to TV.

It during the mid 70 that Paramount Picutres was toying with the idea of starting an Independent Network called The Paramount Network. ( not to be confused with UPN that launched with ST Voyager.)

This new network was intened to have New Star Trek weekly program as it flagship product.
Roddenbery, Justman, and the rest of the production staff was back at the helm and most of the original cast except for Lenoard Nimoy. Who declined to return to the role.

In his place was a young Vulcan called Lt. (jg) Xon and he was going to explore the human condition. ( Data was based on this character )

When the intended TV program was instead green lit as a Movie the pilot was turned into the TMP. Which included Nimoy agreeing to return to play Spock and his intended replacement getting killed in a Transporter accedent.

Parts of the story was changed such as Spock on Vulcan and rejoining the crew.

Ilia was returned to normal at the end of the story since she was going to be part of the regular cast. ( Diana Trio was based on this character - with the love story theme that Lia and Decker was an item prior to his taking a promotion)

Commander Decker also was going to be a regular and he and ILia did not merge with V'ger. ( who was the bases of Commander Ricker)

ALso there was going to be a shoot out with Klingons after they are returned to normal space after V'ger pearted.

It was during this battle that the Enterprise had to conduct a sourcer seperation ( an idea that was part of the Ent. -D)

Also the story was more true the to characters and not patrade as "Stiff" like in the film.

Also the deleted "Memory walk" sceen was also part of the story and even toutched on V'ger came from a planet of machines........

The Spock space walk was writen in during filming when issues where encountered during the original memory walk.

For those that do not have the TMP DVD - this was a deleted sceen where both Kirk and Spock venter into the heart of V'ger and view it recorded histroy.

During the walk - Kirk gets trapped on the wall and has to be freed by Spock.

I have always wonders if the orignal story was filmed and added in Spock how much better TMP would have been?

 

[Jedi Marso]

TMP, despite its numerous flaws, was the only ST movie to ever achieve an 'epic' feel. It also gave us the 1701 refit- still the most beautiful Trek ship ever to hit the screen.