There is so much that is stupid, silly and hackneyed in TUC that it's really picayune of them to single out one detail simply because it might not have been their idea.
Well, the original concept was for the characters to sign off, not the actors.
Nick Meyer; Tone it Down!
- Thread starter RobertScorpio
- Start date
Well, the original concept was for the characters to sign off, not the actors.
Good gravy, that would have been terrible.
It was supposed to look like they were signing the ship's log as they left for the last time. But, it was argued, the captain would sign first, and they wanted to end with Shatner, not start with Kirk. Also, Sulu wasn't even leaving for last time, he was already on a different ship.
We're heriour,
we're superiour,
get used to it.
I feel like a gorram dinosaur
we're superiour,
get used to it.
I feel like a gorram dinosaur
For what it's worth, Meyer offers an apology for his behavior toward Roddenberry in his autobiography, The View from the Bridge. He says that he shouldn't have been as dismissive and as arrogant toward Roddenberry, especially in the script meeting where he stormed out, as he was. He had his reasons -- when your movie is about to start filming, and you're on a deadline, that's not the time for major rewrites like Roddenberry wanted -- and he explains those reasons, but he also also admits that he treated Roddenberry with contempt when he shouldn't have.
If the commentary track feature Flynn, it was recorded a number of years ago, as Flynn died of cancer.
I can see both sides of this one.
On the one hand, I think alot of Meyer's objections to things that Roddenberry wanted were reasonable. Bennett had many of the same disagreements with Roddenberry, although with much less hostility. But, as has been discussed many times here, Roddenberry's idea of what Star Trek should be -- and even of what Star Trek had been before -- had changed drastically, and he kept insisting that the new producers should follow his new, revised vision. And, let's face it, had Roddenberry gotten what he wanted, the three films Meyer was involved in would likely have been drastically different and not nearly as good.
On the other hand, there really was no good reason for Meyer to treat Roddenberry with such hostility and contempt. Storming out of a story meeting, for example, was quite unprofessional and unnecessary. Meyer was writing and directing the film. His position in the creative food chain was secure. He didn't have to accept any of Roddenberry's suggestions (or demands). But he could have shown some respect to him. After all, Roddenberry did create Star Trek, he was important to the fans, and he was "executive consultant" on the film. So let him consult. Do what Harve Bennett did. Listen to Roddenberry's ideas. Take anything that's good and use it. Toss out the rest. And be professional through it all.
Regarding Flynn, I've listened to the commentary that includes him. It was recorded a number of years ago, as it was included on the original two disc DVD release of TUC. And I must agree with RobertScorpio here. He really does sound arrogant. And dismissive of everything Trek that had come before. Not only that, he's not even happy with what others, including Nimoy, did on TUC. It definitely did not leave me with a favorable impression of Flynn.
On the one hand, I think alot of Meyer's objections to things that Roddenberry wanted were reasonable. Bennett had many of the same disagreements with Roddenberry, although with much less hostility. But, as has been discussed many times here, Roddenberry's idea of what Star Trek should be -- and even of what Star Trek had been before -- had changed drastically, and he kept insisting that the new producers should follow his new, revised vision. And, let's face it, had Roddenberry gotten what he wanted, the three films Meyer was involved in would likely have been drastically different and not nearly as good.
On the other hand, there really was no good reason for Meyer to treat Roddenberry with such hostility and contempt. Storming out of a story meeting, for example, was quite unprofessional and unnecessary. Meyer was writing and directing the film. His position in the creative food chain was secure. He didn't have to accept any of Roddenberry's suggestions (or demands). But he could have shown some respect to him. After all, Roddenberry did create Star Trek, he was important to the fans, and he was "executive consultant" on the film. So let him consult. Do what Harve Bennett did. Listen to Roddenberry's ideas. Take anything that's good and use it. Toss out the rest. And be professional through it all.
Regarding Flynn, I've listened to the commentary that includes him. It was recorded a number of years ago, as it was included on the original two disc DVD release of TUC. And I must agree with RobertScorpio here. He really does sound arrogant. And dismissive of everything Trek that had come before. Not only that, he's not even happy with what others, including Nimoy, did on TUC. It definitely did not leave me with a favorable impression of Flynn.
This is why I don't pray at the alter of Nick Meyer. He's been saying stuff like this for a long long time. I think alot of the stuff he did to WOK was both an improvement and why it was successfull. For those same reasons I think this is why TUC is, as Dennis put it, silly. I hate TUC. I hate it deeply. I don't care for Meyer either. He is to TOS-film what Braga is to MT. He may also be what JJ is to Sub-Prime Trek. Time will tell.
You were there?
You've never had an argument in the workplace?
If someone makes you angry, and you're worried you might say something hurtful/unprofessional/slanderous, storming out might be the only option left. It removes you from the situation quickly, and makes a dramatic point. It might have been preferable to have made your departure more politely, but hindsight is always 20/20.
Do you have any idea what an unrepentent dick Roddenberry was? Ask the real creators of TNG, longtime friends of Roddenberry who weren't credited in the main title sequence.
A title that was virtually meaningless. It was just a way to get Roddenberry's name on the final product without actually having him involved in any significant way.
I think of Meyer as a highly literate guy who had a lot of promise but really didn't do a whole lot with it. He reminds me of Lost's John Locke, a guy who spent his whole life being told how special was only to have it never come to anything. He's done some good stuff in film, to be sure (and I liked "The Seven Per Cent Solution"), but surely not the artistically fruitful career I think he probably imagined at the beginning. I'm speculating, of course, but just given his personality and passion, I think he wanted to be a Robert Wise. Actually, I'm not totally speculating; I remember an interview he did where he talked about being depressed that he wasn't making the kind of movies he wanted. A friend told him to get off his ass and direct something instead of sulking over not doing the kinds of things he wanted. He did STII shortly thereafter.
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