Nicholas Meyer and the "Director's Cuts" of Star Trek II and VI

[Shalashaska]

I remember reading somewhere that Meyer said that he actually preferred the theatrical versions to these films, or at least one or the other, and that the added scenes were only there so they could re-release it under the label of "Director's Edition".

Is that true or false? Can anyone elaborate (I'd also like to know Meyer's thoughts on Star Trek VI and the 2.35 vs. 2.00 aspect ratio debate)?

 

[Lance]

In this interview Meyer claims he thinks the changes 'improve' TWOK:

http://trekmovie.com/2014/10/10/exc...ray-reacts-to-into-darkness-death-scene-more/

TrekMovie: Do you know if there is there is a possibility of a Blu-ray release of the director’s cut of Wrath of Khan?

Nicholas Meyer: I don’t know is the short answer. I wish there were, because I like my version – the few changes that I made I think improve the movie, and I was disappointed when they didn’t release it in Blu-ray with my changes.

But he goes on to say:

I don’t really believe in re-writing movies. Movies are in some way part of the historical record. I think things get confused when you start futzing with them and changing them around. This [holds up book on the Hollywood Blacklist in the 1940s & 50s] is a book about the blacklist. Recently – and when I say recently I mean in the last 25 years – they’ve started restoring the names onto those blacklisted movies, which they really wrote. And I think that on the one hand, that is a very laudable thing to do. If you wrote Lawrence of Arabia, your name should be on it. On the other hand, if you restore those names with no explanation there, you are changing history and people will never know about that particularly shameful episode in American history and Hollywood history. So I am very leery. It’s as though you re-cut a Shirley Temple movie and you didn’t like how the black person is the shifty bulging-eyed maid because it is a racist stereotype, and it is, but we shouldn’t forget it. We shouldn’t forget that we did that – we had that. You cut it out and you are changing the record. I don’t want to change my movie with updated special effects is a long-winded answer to your question.

So it seems that as a film historian he's 50/50 on the subject. He likes offering alternative versions of his movies, but he also doesn't want those Director's Cuts to overwrite the theatrical versions, merely to be alternative takes on them.

 

[Grant]

The additions he made to both movies were cuts forced on him at the final stage of editing. He put the material back both times at his earliest opportunity. He was talking about revisionist changes years later -- like Lucas.
Not about adding back in bits he wanted in all along. Yes, they are his preferred cuts. But he acknowledges that making changes is a mistake if done in a Monday morning quarterback way.
His extended cuts are not those types of director's cuts.
Enjoy your preferred versions, but let's accept that he has his.

 

[Grant]

I've noticed on this and other movie forums that some folks have a sad and almost pathetic need to ""deligitimze" the version or versions of movies that is not their preferred version.
If the director or studio make changes they don't like -- they waste time explaining why those versions are flawed. If they DO prefer the changes -- then the reasons the changes were made ARE valid.
Who cares. I don't give a damn which version Meyer or Wise prefers. I choose the version I like and watch that version. As long as the studios release all the cuts of a given movie I am satisfied. I would hate that the theatricals have been lost to new formats as much as I would hate that the Director's Cuts may have been discarded.
I don't need to tell anyone why their preferred vrsion is "weaker" or "flawed"-- it's pointless and petty and shows the need be right and have their opinion validated in some way.
People have claimed that Wise was led and coaxed and didn't have all his faculties when the TMP DC was made. Who cares and what insufferable arrogance to say that so your favorite cut is more legit.
Not calling out anybody here and I don't know if any current posters around here fit that description, but I see it in other forums a lot.
If they do release my preferred cuts of 1 and 6 with a quality restoration, but fail to do the same for the other cuts. I would find that bittersweet, knowing that other fans might never get a top notch release of their favorite cut.

 

[Tosk]

As long as they release both/all versions, I say bring 'em on. It's only when you go all Lucas and try to remove the original version from circulation that I dig my heels in.

 

[Lance]

As long as they release both/all versions, I say bring 'em on. It's only when you go all Lucas and try to remove the original version from circulation that I dig my heels in.

Same.

I've got nothing against "alternative cuts" of movies being made, but when the film-maker themselves declares that the audience can only watch their preferred version and that theatrical cuts don't count then that's when I see it as a problem. So long as all versions are commercially available then I don't have an issue.

Thankfully somebody was smart enough to include both versions of TWOK on the Blu Ray.

Ironically for Lucas, the rumours now are that Disney is seeking to release the theatrical cuts of Star Wars on Blu Ray, specifically against Lucas' wishes. Well George, that's what you get when you sell the farm.

 

[Peach Wookiee]

But there was a DVD run that had the theatrical versions on them while Lucas had control of the franchise. Costco sold them and I own all three...

 

[Jeyl]

But there was a DVD run that had the theatrical versions on them while Lucas had control of the franchise. Costco sold them and I own all three...

Ah, the infamous GOUT (George's Original Unaltered Trilogy) discs. A classic example of giving the fans what they want while only meeting the bottom line. Yes, they were the unaltered versions of the film, but that's the only good thing that could be said about it. They were also deliberately kept at a low standard of quality and even defied presentational methods that every DVD backed studio (Including Lucasfilm) held as a standard.

The films were 4x3 Letterboxed. Those Black Bars that are sometimes eliminated when you watch them on a 16x9 television? No such luck here. They're literally a part of the picture which means a 16x9 will look at the image as a 4x3 image, meaning you'll get a black frame surrounding the image.

4x3 Letterboxed is also problematic since having the black bars being a part of the picture means that it will be taking up data that could have been devoted to the actual image elements of the film if the presentation was anamorphic.

And for those who bought the Star Wars Special Edition DVDs when when fans were told the original unaltered versions of the films would never see the light of day? Well, each copy of the GOUT came bundled with the exact same DVD that was originally released before it. Instead of, you know, bundling just the original unaltered trilogy in one affordable pack, they released all three films individually as a two-disc set containing both the original Special Edition DVD that fans already bought and the GOUT.

And just to kick fans while they were already down, the GOUT was listed as a "Special Feature" instead of an actual film.

But hey, at least now Lucasfilm can say "We did release the unaltered versions of the films. We gave you what you wanted. Be grateful!"

 

[Tosk]

But hey, at least now Lucasfilm can say "We did release the unaltered versions of the films. We gave you what you wanted. Be grateful!"

Hey man, you could always buy an old VHS copy of the original versions! Be grateful!

 

[Lance]

Ah, the infamous GOUT (George's Original Unaltered Trilogy) discs. A classic example of giving the fans what they want while only meeting the bottom line. Yes, they were the unaltered versions of the film, but that's the only good thing that could be said about it. They were also deliberately kept at a low standard of quality and even defied presentational methods that every DVD backed studio (Including Lucasfilm) held as a standard.

The films were 4x3 Letterboxed. Those Black Bars that are sometimes eliminated when you watch them on a 16x9 television? No such luck here. They're literally a part of the picture which means a 16x9 will look at the image as a 4x3 image, meaning you'll get a black frame surrounding the image.

4x3 Letterboxed is also problematic since having the black bars being a part of the picture means that it will be taking up data that could have been devoted to the actual image elements of the film if the presentation was anamorphic.

And for those who bought the Star Wars Special Edition DVDs when when fans were told the original unaltered versions of the films would never see the light of day? Well, each copy of the GOUT came bundled with the exact same DVD that was originally released before it. Instead of, you know, bundling just the original unaltered trilogy in one affordable pack, they released all three films individually as a two-disc set containing both the original Special Edition DVD that fans already bought and the GOUT.

And just to kick fans while they were already down, the GOUT was listed as a "Special Feature" instead of an actual film.

But hey, at least now Lucasfilm can say "We did release the unaltered versions of the films. We gave you what you wanted. Be grateful!"

Exactly. Lucasfilm "bowed to fan pressure", but deliberately did everything they could to bury those particular transfers in a shallow grave. No effort was made whatsoever to give them even the basic respect that they deserved for those DVD transfers. It was clearly a "Here they are -- now bugger off and leave me alone" job.

Disney at least appears to be exploring the possibility of releasing fully restored versions of the unmolested original trilogy on Blu Ray, although the word is that they're finding it hard to recover all the film elements, as once George assembled his SEs in the late 1990s, the original film negatives were effectively left to rot, as he was of the view at the time that the SEs represented 'restored' prints and they were to be used as the basis of all future releases.

I appreciate George's reasons, in particular his desire to try and tie the 1970s/1980s productions into the prequels (as pointless as that is -- they'll always still look like 1970s and 1980s productions no matter how much CGI gets added to them.) But there is a market for versions of those three original movies, without the future revisions. Some fans, heck some film collectors, would like to have high quality versions of those movies simply for historical reasons. The SEs do not (and can never) provide that.

Wrapping back around to Star Trek, I'm not of the view that TWOK's Director's Cut is necessarily that much better than the theatrical, it just adds a few nice little moments that otherwise aren't missed in the theatrical cut. But TMP and TUC are different matters -- some of the changes made there fundamentally alter the movies, so I'm kind of glad that both versions are available, if only from a purists standpoint.

 

[Shalashaska]

Exactly. Lucasfilm "bowed to fan pressure", but deliberately did everything they could to bury those particular transfers in a shallow grave. No effort was made whatsoever to give them even the basic respect that they deserved for those DVD transfers. It was clearly a "Here they are -- now bugger off and leave me alone" job.

Disney at least appears to be exploring the possibility of releasing fully restored versions of the unmolested original trilogy on Blu Ray, although the word is that they're finding it hard to recover all the film elements, as once George assembled his SEs in the late 1990s, the original film negatives were effectively left to rot, as he was of the view at the time that the SEs represented 'restored' prints and they were to be used as the basis of all future releases.

I appreciate George's reasons, in particular his desire to try and tie the 1970s/1980s productions into the prequels (as pointless as that is -- they'll always still look like 1970s and 1980s productions no matter how much CGI gets added to them.) But there is a market for versions of those three original movies, without the future revisions. Some fans, heck some film collectors, would like to have high quality versions of those movies simply for historical reasons. The SEs do not (and can never) provide that.

Wrapping back around to Star Trek, I'm not of the view that TWOK's Director's Cut is necessarily that much better than the theatrical, it just adds a few nice little moments that otherwise aren't missed in the theatrical cut. But TMP and TUC are different matters -- some of the changes made there fundamentally alter the movies, so I'm kind of glad that both versions are available, if only from a purists standpoint.

Do you have a source to these rumours about an unaltered trilogy release? I haven't heard anything of the sort.

 

[FormerLurker]

Ah, the infamous GOUT (George's Original Unaltered Trilogy) discs. A classic example of giving the fans what they want while only meeting the bottom line. Yes, they were the unaltered versions of the film, but that's the only good thing that could be said about it. They were also deliberately kept at a low standard of quality and even defied presentational methods that every DVD backed studio (Including Lucasfilm) held as a standard.

The films were 4x3 Letterboxed. Those Black Bars that are sometimes eliminated when you watch them on a 16x9 television? No such luck here. They're literally a part of the picture which means a 16x9 will look at the image as a 4x3 image, meaning you'll get a black frame surrounding the image.

4x3 Letterboxed is also problematic since having the black bars being a part of the picture means that it will be taking up data that could have been devoted to the actual image elements of the film if the presentation was anamorphic.

And for those who bought the Star Wars Special Edition DVDs when when fans were told the original unaltered versions of the films would never see the light of day? Well, each copy of the GOUT came bundled with the exact same DVD that was originally released before it. Instead of, you know, bundling just the original unaltered trilogy in one affordable pack, they released all three films individually as a two-disc set containing both the original Special Edition DVD that fans already bought and the GOUT.

And just to kick fans while they were already down, the GOUT was listed as a "Special Feature" instead of an actual film.

But hey, at least now Lucasfilm can say "We did release the unaltered versions of the films. We gave you what you wanted. Be grateful!"

Some of us were smart (or poor) enough to not buy the Special Edition DVDs, and only bought the two-disc sets.

 

[Kor]

There was some tweet a while back from somebody or other who really has no say in such matters. I can't remember much beyond that.

Kor

 

[Patrick16309]

I absolutely hate the "colonel west!" Scooby doo reveal at the end of 6. It's so ridiculous and I much preferred the theatrical version.

 

[Grant]

Never heard that cliche before.

 

[Avro Arrow]

There was some tweet a while back from somebody or other who really has no say in such matters.

Well, that certainly sounds definitive!

I think I'll go tweet that DS9 is finally coming to Blu-Ray...

 

[BillJ]

I think I'll go tweet that DS9 is finally coming to Blu-Ray...

Make sure to photoshop some box art!

 

[Shalashaska]

I absolutely hate the "colonel west!" Scooby doo reveal at the end of 6. It's so ridiculous and I much preferred the theatrical version.

Why is the reveal always compared to Scooby-Doo? I never watched much of it.

 

[BillJ]

Why is the reveal always compared to Scooby-Doo? I never watched much of it.

Pull a mask off of the bad guy at the end, who we thought was a good guy all along and gasp about the identity.

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[mos6507]

Whodunnits normally have a reveal at the end of some kind with a batch of "here's how it went down" exposition. Scooby Doo hardly invented that.