New Star Wars animated show "Rebels" coming fall 2014

[davejames]

Actually I didn't like the clip much. Too much of it was exactly like a certain 1977 movie, particularly the constant direct quotes in the music. I would've liked it if The Clone Wars had used more of Williams's themes, but this much direct imitation of old cues, especially in concert with direct imitation of the shots they accompanied, is taking it too far in the other direction. I hope the whole score isn't so imitative.

And I didn't find the scene very funny, and the droid still annoys me, especially the voice, which sounds like somebody going "wah-wah-wah" through a ring modulator. At least R2's bleeps are complicated enough to believe there's a real language there. Chopper's sounds are about as complex as Morse code, and I can't believe they could convey that much in the way of linguistic information. Plus they're just irritating. Although I did kind of like the bit where the droid took matters into its own hands to deal with the last fighter.

Actually I have to agree with a lot of comments I've seen that it sounds more like he's muttering "fuck-fuck-fuck-fuck" the entire time.

As yeah it's still obviously copying moments and scenes from ANH, but I suspect this is just Kinberg and Filoni's way of reintroducing people to the style and tone of those original movies again. I seriously doubt we're going to see this kind of thing throughout the entire show (and besides, there's only six hours worth of that material to borrow from anyway).

The music though I definitely don't mind hearing again. It's great, exciting stuff that still works just as well as it ever did. And if they're going to copy the scene, might as well do it all the way I say.

 

[Reverend]

Pretty sure that scene was just a tongue-in-cheek "hey, does this feel familiar to you" nod at the fans. The references were far too specific to be anything else so there's no way the whole show is going to be like this.

 

[kirk55555]

She was personally trained in the ways of the Force by Emperor Palpatine - she was absolutely a Dark Jedi, just like Asajj Ventress and the rest of the Emperor's Hands. One doesn't have to shoot lightning out of their fingertips to be a Dark Jedi. Being a Dark Jedi does not make her "irredeemable" - Kyp Durron, Kam Solusar, Jaina Solo, and Tahiri Veila all fell to the dark side and were redeemed - and Kyp blew up an entire star system, so working for an Inquisitor would not destroy Mara's character.

ETA: I will agree with you that she's a bit young to appear in Rebels, for now. But assuming they move forward in the timeline, she could be introduced later when she is 14-15 or so.

Actually, I'm pretty sure there was a comment on the subject in one of the books by someone (maybe Luke) who said she wasn't a dark jedi or Sith. I don't think she was either. She was an imperial agent with force powers, she never got a lot of advance training that jedi or Sith get, and she never really used a dark side power. She was also a lot weaker when it comes to force skills than people like ventress, from a force user perspective a jedi padawan probably knew more force skills when she met Luke. She ended up getting to jedi level by going to the academy a few times and practicing with some of the new jedi (I forget exactly who, but I think it was said a few thimes that she and a specific jedi of the post Episode VI era helped each other train a lot).

She was also not evil at the core. She let a lot of people go that Palpatine would not approve of during her time as his Hand, and she only tried to kill Luke because she was compelled to by a long lasting force command. People like Ventress are just irredeemable evil. That's what a dark jedi or sith are, evil with no conscious at all. Kyp Durron was a moron (and never actually redeemed himself in my opinion), Kyle Katarn was just a victim of stupid video game story writers, Jaina never went full darkside and Tahiri was mentally unstable for almost 20 years before she became Jacen's apprentice. Using Kyp as an example, he murdered millions of people. He never redeemed himself, some authors just decided they didn't want to kill him off or lock him away. He then went on to almost lose the Vong war for everyone by trying to tear the jedi apart, so I'd say he was about 1000x worse than Mara at her worst, so its not a fair comparison.

Mara was never evil. She did bad things, but in the end she wasn't like Ventress, Durron, Jacen Solo or the various sith lords. She was loyal to Palpatine, and that was a mistake (which she really had no control over based on how she was raised), but without his influence she didn't still go around doing evil things. A real dark jedi or sith would.

In the end, that's my opinion. You don't have to agree, but it won't be changing. Mara was never a evil force user to me, and I intend to ignore the existence of any character trying to take advantage of her name if one appears in Rebels.

I'm done arguing, this topic is supposed to be about Rebels. I haven't seen either of the clips about it, and I probably won't bother. I'll see the first few episodes if I can, although at this point I'm really not expecting anything good to come of it.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

It says on YouTube that "The Machine in the Ghost" is a short, so that makes it sound like this is a stand-alone, kinda like a prototype. If so, this homage to the TIE fighter attack on the Falcon is not part of one of the episodes. That's a relief, because it's too homage-y to work as anything else.

The homage aspects are cute for a stand-alone, the visualization and sound effects were great (though I'm afraid I'm always going to be annoyed by the TIE fighter proportions). However, on the downside, changing Chopper's assignments like that really didn't work for me, as it's the sort of ham-fisted trope you use to convey that the crew is rough around the edges. Al in all, thumbs slightly up for me.

Yeah, at least at the end, Chopper's pretty obviously saying "fuck-fuck-fuck-fuck".

Actually I didn't like the clip much. Too much of it was exactly like a certain 1977 movie, particularly the constant direct quotes in the music. I would've liked it if The Clone Wars had used more of Williams's themes, but this much direct imitation of old cues, especially in concert with direct imitation of the shots they accompanied, is taking it too far in the other direction. I hope the whole score isn't so imitative.

And I didn't find the scene very funny, and the droid still annoys me, especially the voice, which sounds like somebody going "wah-wah-wah" through a ring modulator. At least R2's bleeps are complicated enough to believe there's a real language there. Chopper's sounds are about as complex as Morse code, and I can't believe they could convey that much in the way of linguistic information. Plus they're just irritating. Although I did kind of like the bit where the droid took matters into its own hands to deal with the last fighter.

Actually I have to agree with a lot of comments I've seen that it sounds more like he's muttering "fuck-fuck-fuck-fuck" the entire time.

As yeah it's still obviously copying moments and scenes from ANH, but I suspect this is just Kinberg and Filoni's way of reintroducing people to the style and tone of those original movies again. I seriously doubt we're going to see this kind of thing throughout the entire show (and besides, there's only six hours worth of that material to borrow from anyway).

The music though I definitely don't mind hearing again. It's great, exciting stuff that still works just as well as it ever did. And if they're going to copy the scene, might as well do it all the way I say.

 

[Reverend]

She was personally trained in the ways of the Force by Emperor Palpatine - she was absolutely a Dark Jedi, just like Asajj Ventress and the rest of the Emperor's Hands. One doesn't have to shoot lightning out of their fingertips to be a Dark Jedi. Being a Dark Jedi does not make her "irredeemable" - Kyp Durron, Kam Solusar, Jaina Solo, and Tahiri Veila all fell to the dark side and were redeemed - and Kyp blew up an entire star system, so working for an Inquisitor would not destroy Mara's character.

ETA: I will agree with you that she's a bit young to appear in Rebels, for now. But assuming they move forward in the timeline, she could be introduced later when she is 14-15 or so.

Actually, I'm pretty sure there was a comment on the subject in one of the books by someone (maybe Luke) who said she wasn't a dark jedi or Sith. I don't think she was either. She was an imperial agent with force powers, she never got a lot of advance training that jedi or Sith get, and she never really used a dark side power. She was also a lot weaker when it comes to force skills than people like ventress, from a force user perspective a jedi padawan probably knew more force skills when she met Luke. She ended up getting to jedi level by going to the academy a few times and practicing with some of the new jedi (I forget exactly who, but I think it was said a few thimes that she and a specific jedi of the post Episode VI era helped each other train a lot).

She was also not evil at the core. She let a lot of people go that Palpatine would not approve of during her time as his Hand, and she only tried to kill Luke because she was compelled to by a long lasting force command. People like Ventress are just irredeemable evil. That's what a dark jedi or sith are, evil with no conscious at all. Kyp Durron was a moron (and never actually redeemed himself in my opinion), Kyle Katarn was just a victim of stupid video game story writers, Jaina never went full darkside and Tahiri was mentally unstable for almost 20 years before she became Jacen's apprentice. Using Kyp as an example, he murdered millions of people. He never redeemed himself, some authors just decided they didn't want to kill him off or lock him away. He then went on to almost lose the Vong war for everyone by trying to tear the jedi apart, so I'd say he was about 1000x worse than Mara at her worst, so its not a fair comparison.

Mara was never evil. She did bad things, but in the end she wasn't like Ventress, Durron, Jacen Solo or the various sith lords. She was loyal to Palpatine, and that was a mistake (which she really had no control over based on how she was raised), but without his influence she didn't still go around doing evil things. A real dark jedi or sith would.

In the end, that's my opinion. You don't have to agree, but it won't be changing. Mara was never a evil force user to me, and I intend to ignore the existence of any character trying to take advantage of her name if one appears in Rebels.

I'm done arguing, this topic is supposed to be about Rebels. I haven't seen either of the clips about it, and I probably won't bother. I'll see the first few episodes if I can, although at this point I'm really not expecting anything good to come of it.

I tend to agree that she wasn't a "Dark Jedi" as I generally think of that term as a Jedi that's fallen to the dark side, but not an adherent of the Sith code. Since (as far as we know) she was never a Jedi the label shouldn't apply.

She was a force user who's abilities were honed to a very specific criteria, with the main focus being on martial skill rather than more advance abilities. She did have some telekinetic capability though as I recall.

Still, being under the direct influence of a Sith lord (supposedly he could get inside her head at will, from anywhere in the galaxy) couldn't have left her totally unscathed. I mean she certainly wasn't instructed in the ways of the light side, so at best she'd be something akin to a Grey Jedi, but skewed more towards darkness. Not evil, but deeply misguided and certainly on the dark path.

 

[davejames]

It says on YouTube that "The Machine in the Ghost" is a short, so that makes it sound like this is a stand-alone, kinda like a prototype. If so, this homage to the TIE fighter attack on the Falcon is not part of one of the episodes. That's a relief, because it's too homage-y to work as anything else.

Perhaps. But we've also seen several moments from this clip already in various trailers and teasers, which makes me think at least a portion of it will show up in an actual episode.

I think they might just be calling it a "short" because it also functions perfectly well as a standalone scene.

 

[C.E. Evans]

I go with this short being just a homage-y standalone bit, but I think that it will lead into the first episode of the actual series.

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

Well, at least we know that TIE Fighter Pilots' terrible aim is indeed endemic and not limited to those four morons who were trying to shoot up the Falcon (yes i *know* they were deliberately letting them escape, but it still looked pathetic). Unless THESE guys are also letting the Ghost crew escape...

Mark

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Well, at least we know that TIE Fighter Pilots' terrible aim is indeed endemic and not limited to those four morons who were trying to shoot up the Falcon (yes i *know* they were deliberately letting them escape, but it still looked pathetic). Unless THESE guys are also letting the Ghost crew escape...

Mark

Those pilots in Star Wars (1977) would not have been ordered to miss. Tarkin just made sure that the four sentry ships weren't reinforced, so that they had bad odds of winning.

 

[Jedi_Master]

On the subject of Mara Jade, if she is a character in any form, her EU backstory could be used or disposed of at will.

They could make her a 300 year old Hutt or a 20 year old Twi'lek now that the EU is considered as "Legends".

That being said if she IS in the new show or movies, they will likely spend some time explaining her background and establishing her powers. "Corrupted as a youth dark side force user" is what I would see her being defined as in any new material.

 

[kirk55555]

On the subject of Mara Jade, if she is a character in any form, her EU backstory could be used or disposed of at will.

They could make her a 300 year old Hutt or a 20 year old Twi'lek now that the EU is considered as "Legends".

Wow, really? You don't say They could also say that Han Solo is actually the illegitimate son of Palpatine. Of course they can do whatever the hell they want, everyone knows that. The conversation was about what people thought would/should be done, and I was pointing out that if they use the name without most of the backstory, it will just be a big FU to Expanded Universe fans in the form of trying to get cheap name recognition, one I'd ignore. No one said they were forced to do her a certain way.

That said, there would be no point of using the name/look and nothing else. Even the star Trek reboot movies kept some general characteristics for the main characters. We'll have to wait and see what happens. Personally I'm pretty sure they'll screw it up if she's done on TV or live action, but I can ignore whatever stupid character they slap Mara's name onto easily enough. At this point, I have A LOT of experience ignoring horrible new characters using names of characters I liked (Note: That is actually mostly a jab at DC Comics, not the new ST movies). Then again, maybe she'll be done well, like Scotty from the new ST movies. I'll be watching/reading with interest if she ever pops up, and I hope they'll use her right if they decide to bring her back.

 

[sojourner]

Ah, I still remember back in the day before Empire Strikes Back the speculation that Boba Fett was really Luke's father in hiding.

 

[Jedi_Master]

On the subject of Mara Jade, if she is a character in any form, her EU backstory could be used or disposed of at will.

They could make her a 300 year old Hutt or a 20 year old Twi'lek now that the EU is considered as "Legends".

it will just be a big FU to Expanded Universe fans

Not everyone would consider the introduction of a character named Mara Jade whose background story did not slavishly adhere to her Wookiepedia page a "FU to the EU fans".

For me if she was human, female and around Luke's age, I would be happy. Oh and if she used the Force.

 

[Christopher]

On the subject of Mara Jade, if she is a character in any form, her EU backstory could be used or disposed of at will.

Sure. There are plenty of past cases of characters created for one version of a franchise being adopted into a different continuity -- like the original comics picking up Perry White and Jimmy Olsen from the Superman radio series, Harley Quinn and Renee Montoya from Batman: The Animated Series, and Phil Coulson and nearly the entire Agents of SHIELD cast (who will be debuting in the main Marvel Universe in a few months). Adopting a character doesn't require keeping their backstory or context intact; for instance, Jimmy Olsen was a blond copyboy turned cub reporter on radio, but became a redheaded photographer in the comics (and later was retconned to a redhead on radio).

 

[kirk55555]

On the subject of Mara Jade, if she is a character in any form, her EU backstory could be used or disposed of at will.

They could make her a 300 year old Hutt or a 20 year old Twi'lek now that the EU is considered as "Legends".

it will just be a big FU to Expanded Universe fans

Not everyone would consider the introduction of a character named Mara Jade whose background story did not slavishly adhere to her Wookiepedia page a "FU to the EU fans".

For me if she was human, female and around Luke's age, I would be happy. Oh and if she used the Force.

Then why call her Mara Jade? Its like making Clark Kent a non-powered pimp and archenemy of Jimmy Ol-Son, the real Superman. If you're trying to take advantage of a pre-existing character when you reboot, then base it on the actual character, don't just use the name for cheap name recognition.

 

[Jedi_Master]

it will just be a big FU to Expanded Universe fans

Not everyone would consider the introduction of a character named Mara Jade whose background story did not slavishly adhere to her Wookiepedia page a "FU to the EU fans".

For me if she was human, female and around Luke's age, I would be happy. Oh and if she used the Force.

Then why call her Mara Jade? Its like making Clark Kent a non-powered pimp and archenemy of Jimmy Ol-Son, the real Superman. If you're trying to take advantage of a pre-existing character when you reboot, then base it on the actual character, don't just use the name for cheap name recognition.

The chances are that if tPtB use her as character they will use SOME of her back story, but not all.
The point I was making is that as of now there is the strictest sense no "actual" character named Mara Jade in the canonical universe.
So if the character is introduced, any portion of her character design and background that adheres to the EU Mara Jade will be coincidental and designed to appeal to EU fans.

 

[kirk55555]

Then they just shouldn't do it. Make some other evil jedi/sith and call her some other name. If they don't want to write Mara Jade like she was, then using her is just going to annoy a lot of her fans while simultaneously not mattering at all to people who don't know the character from the old EU. Its just taunting Mara Jade fans at that point, there is no advantage to using the name otherwise.

 

[sojourner]

If they don't want to write Mara Jade like she was, then using her is just going to annoy one of her fans while simultaneously not mattering at all to people who don't know the character from the old EU.

FTFY

 

[Jedi_Master]

I really don't think you should take it so hard fives. Think of it this way - for three years a Star Wars fans all "knew" that Luke's father was a Jedi Knight that was killed by Darth Vader.

 

[cooleddie74]

Anything they write will annoy at least some fans of the books and EU (not to mention previous films). Just because a few fans don't want to see a character like Mara Jade partially or completely rewritten for the new post-Jedi continuity might be valid reason enough for those fans, but not the producers or everybody else. At the end of the day I'd complain more about how some actual on-screen characters were written than one that appeared solely in the Expanded Universe.

Just sayin'.