New Species Revamps on DSC?

[XCV330]

As much as I don't want to delve in to the timeless battle of Star Wars vs. Star Trek (though, I think SF Debris already ruled in SW's favor, at least for the wikis ), Star Wars is not a good comparison. The main reason is that as much as I like SW the technology is very stagnant. That is neither realistic nor a good benchmark for me to compare.

Regardless, I am of the opinion that all speculative fiction (science fiction & fantasy) needs to work on more diversity among races of aliens or fantasy creatures. This includes both Star Trek and Star Wars and I think both franchises are lesser for not having the diversity of current races but instead just adding more aliens.

Trek at least has a good reason for humanoids being all over the galaxy.. essentially evolution was deviated that way on each world that gave rise to them. Seems to imply that intelligent life would have been rare, though not unknown on worlds they did not tamper with.

I too though would like to see more alien aliens. Bring on the Tholians. And it would be fun to see the Breen turn out to be folded up strange mantis's that look nothing like humanoids at all.

 

[fireproof78]

If you're talking about showing aliens as something more deep than "planet of hats" I agree. Though there is so, many less hours of official Star Wars than Trek that Trek wins this by default. Star Wars never did anything with a race like DS9 did with the Cardassians, for example.

I agree as well. That's like things like Linus or Saru frustrate me, or even the Cardassians (at first), is how many more aliens there are to explore. Unfortunately, that is a byproduct of even GR's own reluctance to continue on with classic aliens from TOS in to TMP and TNG.

 

[eschaton]

I agree as well. That's like things like Linus or Saru frustrate me, or even the Cardassians (at first), is how many more aliens there are to explore. Unfortunately, that is a byproduct of even GR's own reluctance to continue on with classic aliens from TOS in to TMP and TNG.

Yeah. One thing that I'm happy about is that since we know DIS isn't going to do procedural plots there will be less of these "throwaway aliens" overall.

Regarding Star Wars, aside from the official movies and the KOTOR games I haven't really explored that world much. But my impression has been that even though many of the alien races speak their own languages, basically no work involving unique alien cultures has been done at all. Nearly everyone is portrayed as just being part of the same "galactic" culture. Which puts it at an opposite extreme from Trek, where aliens are too often boiled down to being different in some estentialist way, with alien personalities for a given race far more similar than the range for humans.

 

[Tuskin38]

Most of the lore expansion for the races comes from the books, and recently Clone Wars and Rebels did quite a bit of world building for the Twi'leks that was more then dancing slave girls.

 

[Fandango831]

I like your profile pic from TMP! Do you have a larger version?

Pretty sure I do yes. I'll PM it your way if I find it.

 

[Arpy]

Yup. We will destroy your preconceived notions of all Star Trek related materials. Largely because it is unrealistic to expect every single thing to fit in without ever thoughts have crept up in the minds of fans over the last 50 years.

Also, it is even more unrealistic to demand that all aliens look identical to every iteration ever seen. I would not want the production crew to apologize for the updated design of the Saurians any more than I want GR to apologize for updating the Klingons. The level of handwringing over alien desire is concerning to me. Largely because rather than focusing on enjoying the show, it must be dissected piece by piece and examined for it's "True Star Trek blood" while be narrated by Jonathan Frakes.

That’s a straw man argument. Almost no one expects them to look exactly the same. Most fans delight in updates and and refinements. I like the show and am impressed by what they come up with, but that’s not a reason to overzealously criticize fans who’ve been reasoned in their critiques.

 

[fireproof78]

That’s a straw man argument. Almost no one expects them to look exactly the same. Most fans delight in updates and and refinements. I like the show and am impressed by what they come up with, but that’s not a reason to overzealously criticize fans who’ve been reasoned in their critiques.

It was actually meant as hyperbole, exaggeration for the sake of making a point. Also, not critiquing fans, but the fan attitude of expect similarity in design.

More to my point is simply that I prefer more variety to alien species, largely because it demonstrates the idea that alien life might look different. Things like skin color or eye color, or such variations strike me as minor in terms of possible genetic variation.

 

[Kor]

No wonder we never get to see the whole crew like this in STAR TREK, anymore ... they're damned ugly, most of them.

Didn't the crew in this scene include a bunch of Star Trek fans who weren't actually in show business?

Kor

 

[Nerys Myk]

I kinda wonder if there *was* such a thing as "first iterations of the Trek bible", or maybe they were just pulling stuff straight out of their butts to begin with.

There was a writers/directors guide. I don't recall it mentioning UESPA/Space Command/Starfleet.

Arcturians from TMP. Visually, they might as well be the Zakdorn, but their backstory is mental:

A militaristic race of great armies. All are identical – they clone each other, can only tell apart by color of uniforms. Provide infantry for Federation. Planet is enormous and population enormous, subject to any amount of expansion; 100 billion population, army of 20 billion ready overnight. Click!

Where were these guys when the Jem'Hadar were causing trouble?

Sounds like something from Star Wars.

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

Didn't the crew in this scene include a bunch of Star Trek fans who weren't actually in show business?

Kor

Yes, including James Doohan's sons and Bjo Trimble!

-MMoM

 

[2takesfrakes]

Didn't the crew in this scene include a bunch of Star Trek fans who weren't actually in show business?

Kor

... Sure looks like it.

 

[Arpy]

It was actually meant as hyperbole, exaggeration for the sake of making a point. Also, not critiquing fans, but the fan attitude of expect similarity in design.

More to my point is simply that I prefer more variety to alien species, largely because it demonstrates the idea that alien life might look different. Things like skin color or eye color, or such variations strike me as minor in terms of possible genetic variation.

Except 1) it isn't really so minor. It's a drastic reimagining that's taken the species in a pretty different direction. (See here why that's not nothing.) You can not care, like you can not care if endangered species you've never heard of go extinct, but it's a shame, all the same.

And 2) [chances are] you're not going to see a room full of gray and purple and orange Saurians, giving you the variety you/we like, anymore than any of the different Klingon houses will look anything like Klingons from TOS/TMP/DS9/ID/etc, as TPTB themselves suggested before.

No wonder we never get to see the whole crew like this in STAR TREK, anymore ... they're damned ugly, most of them.

Compared to what, the cast of Days of Our Lives? They look like real people, with 70's hair.

 

[fireproof78]

Except 1) it isn't really so minor. It's a drastic reimagining that's taken the species in a pretty different direction. (See here why that's not nothing.) You can not care, like you can not care if endangered species you've never heard of go extinct, but it's a shame, all the same.

And 2) [chances are] you're not going to see a room full of gray and purple and orange Saurians, giving you the variety you/we like, anymore than any of the different Klingon houses will look anything like Klingons from TOS/TMP/DS9/ID/etc, as TPTB themselves suggested before.

1) It's minor enough in terms of genetic variety among species.
2) That doesn't make past Saurians cease to exist.

 

[Nerys Myk]

1) It's minor enough in terms of genetic variety among species.
2) That doesn't make past Saurians cease to exist.

Check your copy of TMP and TMP related merch. The destruct codes have been activated.

 

[2takesfrakes]

Compared to what, the cast of Days of Our Lives? They look like real people, with 70's hair.

I dunno. The brunette's kinda hot, actually ...

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[fireproof78]

Check your copy of TMP and TMP related merch. The destruct codes have been activated.

I would never! I'm only a Kelvin Universe Star Trek fan ever since he destroyed my copies of TOS!

 

[Nerys Myk]

I would never! I'm only a Kelvin Universe Star Trek fan ever since he destroyed my copies of TOS!

Did those burns ever heal? All for a copy of Spock's Brain. Sad.

 

[Arpy]

1) It's minor enough in terms of genetic variety among species.
2) That doesn't make past Saurians cease to exist.

You're missing it. 1) when was the last time you saw a green human? There's variation, then there's departure.
2) So kiss those Saurians goodbye, moving forward?

I think you're being too defensive of a beloved show.

 

[fireproof78]

You're missing it. 1) when was the last time you saw a green human? There's variation, then there's departure.
2) So kiss those Saurians goodbye, moving forward?

I think you're being too defensive of a beloved show.

1) Do humans have the genetic code to be green? Truly curious, and I'll need to look it up.
2) I don't know. I like to think not but I truly don't know.

No, I am genuinely curious why variety among aliens is considered so out there. It baffles me that change is unacceptable. And, to your point, I realize that you are noting the differences and those differences are big enough to require notation. Fair enough, and I'll not disparage that. But, I don't agree with the conclusion that the differences cannot be explain through genetic variation.

Did those burns ever heal? All for a copy of Spock's Brain. Sad.

There's a cream for it.

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

I think lighting may be playing a significant role in our perceptions of both Linus' and the original TMP Saurian's coloration here...

-MMoM