New series: Enterprise-B or -C?

[Kemaiku]

Six months passed between 3 and 4, the Council would have had to argue the case for most of that. The recall to Earth was probably because they had just reached their decision days before.

The Enterprise-A did have major systems issues, but the extent of the refit itself to the new Constitution design might not have worked on every ship. It might have been a ship that always had problems since 2273 and had undergone yet another refit to try and clear them, resulting in a 'blank' ship for the time being.

I think the Council's decision to give them the new ship was just for show, they never expected it to go on for too long. The decommissioning in Star Trek 6 would have been to finally get rid of the damn thing and make way for the proper Enterprise (B).

The original plan (in universe I mean) might have been to have a gap between the loss of the 1701 and the launch of the Excelsior class replacement with a totally new registry number.

Kirk's always has to meddle though...

 

[Longinus]

Even if it was a spanking new build, it obviously wasn't intended to be the Enterprise. Construction of a new ship would've started at least 18 months prior to the ship launching.

Sure, but it doesn't mean it ever had any other name. For all we know Starfleet officially decides the name of the ship on the same day it is the time to paint it on the hull. And that could have been five minutes before we saw the ship first time.

 

[BillJ]

Sure, but it doesn't mean it ever had any other name. For all we know Starfleet officially decides the name of the ship on the same day it is the time to paint it on the hull. And that could have been five minutes before we saw the ship first time.

Sure it could. I'm not claiming mine is an iron clad explanation everyone needs to bow to. Just the one I happen to subscribe to.

 

[C.E. Evans]

But clearly the Enterprise A was a new ship based on the revisions done to the interiors and the state of the art warp core.

Not necessarily, because ships undergo numerous upgrades during their operational lifetimes.

Sure this could've been done through standard upgrades but there's nothing to imply the ship was old and rebranded with another name.

There's nothing to say that it's not possible, which is why there's no consensus on her origins. A case could easily be made that the Enterprise-A was a recently repaired or refitted ship that was handed to Kirk before even all the doors were tested to see if they could work. All the comments about the ship would still be valid, but again, there's more than one way to look at the ship.

 

[BillJ]

There's nothing to say that it's not possible, which is why there's no consensus on her origins. A case could easily be made that the Enterprise-A was a recently repaired or refitted ship that was handed to Kirk before even all the doors were tested to see if they could work. All the comments about the ship would still be valid, but again, there's more than one way to look at the ship.

Which would seem fitting after showing Starfleet to be totally incompetent during the Genesis affair.

 

[Brainsucker]

I don't understand, why a ship need to be "renamed" just after her captain (Kirk) left and retired. If that ship still space worthy and capable, then there is no reason for the Starfleet to decommissioned her or even renamed her. Plus, it is even more illogical for the entire crew to retire when Kirk left. The Enterprise A can be commanded by Chekov (he is the youngest, isn't he?), Uhura, Spock, or other people in the team; and continue to boldly gone where no one has gone before.

It's different if the Enterprise A was already obsolete, or if the metal fatigue has exceeded their limit. But even Excelsior was considered as old ship, if the Enterprise A was an old ship with old hull, at that time.

Or maybe it was because of budget cut? Like the number of Excelsior Class was already too many for the Federation to maintain. So they choose to retire an old design in favor to the new armada of Excelsior Class? That's logical. Excelsior can takes more phaser bank than Constitution Class. It mean that her hull can take bigger power generator or something to supply those phaser.

 

[STEPhon IT]

I don't understand, why a ship need to be "renamed" just after her captain (Kirk) left and retired. If that ship still space worthy and capable, then there is no reason for the Starfleet to decommissioned her or even renamed her. Plus, it is even more illogical for the entire crew to retire when Kirk left. The Enterprise A can be commanded by Chekov (he is the youngest, isn't he?), Uhura, Spock, or other people in the team; and continue to boldly gone where no one has gone before.

Those featured characters never appeared to have an interest in command. I would've expected in Generations Chekov be ranked Captain by then; based on his historical, and honorable service, but nothing. It's possibly Enterprise B was already going through shakedown runs as the Khitomer crisis was going on.

 

[Brainsucker]

Those featured characters never appeared to have an interest in command. I would've expected in Generations Chekov be ranked Captain by then; based on his historical, and honorable service, but nothing. It's possibly Enterprise B was already going through shakedown runs as the Khitomer crisis was going on.

For me it just a ridiculous excuse for those characters in order for them to stay on screen.

 

[Longinus]

I don't understand, why a ship need to be "renamed" just after her captain (Kirk) left and retired.

Because there was a new Enterprise and they can't have two ships with the same name. That would just be confusing.

 

[C.E. Evans]

^^^
I think the question there was why would the Enterprise-A be renamed as another vessel and continue onwards solely because Kirk left. If the ship was still viable after the Khitomer Conference, she could have continued being the Enterprise with another captain and crew and Starfleet could have called some other vessel the Enterprise-B much later down the road perhaps.

 

[BillJ]

^^^
I think the question there was why would the Enterprise-A be renamed as another vessel and continue onwards solely because Kirk left. If the ship was still viable after the Khitomer Conference, she could have continued being the Enterprise with another captain and crew and Starfleet could have called some other vessel the Enterprise-B much later down the road perhaps.

Unless plans for the Enterprise-B (originally to be the "A") were set in motion before the Enterprise-A existed? Scott's sabotage sets back the Excelsior class program a few years but the plan was still to have one of the first ships of the class be an Enterprise.

 

[Longinus]

If the ship was still viable after the Khitomer Conference, she could have continued being the Enterprise with another captain and crew and Starfleet could have called some other vessel the Enterprise-B much later down the road perhaps.

But was she viable? The ship too hell of a beating. Seven torpedo hits in total. For first six she still had (some) shields on, but every hit seemed to damage the hull nevertheless*. Seventh goes straight through and we see explosion all over the ship. Even though by some miracle the vessel remained in one piece, there may have been serious internal damage, and it was just not worth it to repair her.

(* Exelsior seems to have better shields. The torpedo hit merely makes the shield sparkle, but there's no visible damage.)

 

[C.E. Evans]

Unless plans for the Enterprise-B (originally to be the "A") were set in motion before the Enterprise-A existed? Scott's sabotage sets back the Excelsior class program a few years but the plan was still to have one of the first ships of the class be an Enterprise.

I always felt that the Enterprise-B was already waiting in the wings at the time of Star Trek VI and the Enterprise-A was simply winding down the clock until her scheduled decommissioning in three months. The damage she took during the Khitomer Conference accelerated her retirement.

But was she viable? The ship too hell of a beating. Seven torpedo hits in total. For first six she still had (some) shields on, but every hit seemed to damage the hull nevertheless*. Seventh goes straight through and we see explosion all over the ship. Even though by some miracle the vessel remained in one piece, there may have been serious internal damage, and it was just not worth it to repair her.

Preaching to the choir.

 

[Dukhat]

Unless plans for the Enterprise-B (originally to be the "A") were set in motion before the Enterprise-A existed? Scott's sabotage sets back the Excelsior class program a few years but the plan was still to have one of the first ships of the class be an Enterprise.

Yeah, this is pretty much how I rationalized things:

Once the Excelsior program was underway and the prototype built, the original plan was to have the next Excelsior class ship be the Enterprise-A, with the original Enterprise to be decommissioned as per TSFS. However, because of the "extenuating circumstances" that the President referred to in TVH, it was decided to give Kirk a ship as a reward for saving Earth. It could have been any ship, but someone decided to either name a new Connie after the Enterprise, or rename an old Connie after the Enterprise, and make that ship the Enterprise-A. But this would only be temporary until the newer Enterprise (now B), was finished. Which explains why the Ent-A was decommissioned so soon after it was launched. If it was an older Connie, it could have been totally decommissioned, or recommissioned with its original name. If it was a new Connie, then it could have been recommissioned with a new name.

 

[cultcross]

Given the ease with which the Sau Paulo became the Defiant just basically out of Starfleet sentimentality, I can well believe @Dukhat 's theory. Of course, both name changes have 'real world' production realities behind them, but in universe, if you can just change a ship's name on a whim, there's no reason that this couldn't happen fairly regularly.

 

[Brainsucker]

Yeah, this is pretty much how I rationalized things:

Once the Excelsior program was underway and the prototype built, the original plan was to have the next Excelsior class ship be the Enterprise-A, with the original Enterprise to be decommissioned as per TSFS. However, because of the "extenuating circumstances" that the President referred to in TVH, it was decided to give Kirk a ship as a reward for saving Earth. It could have been any ship, but someone decided to either name a new Connie after the Enterprise, or rename an old Connie after the Enterprise, and make that ship the Enterprise-A. But this would only be temporary until the newer Enterprise (now B), was finished. Which explains why the Ent-A was decommissioned so soon after it was launched. If it was an older Connie, it could have been totally decommissioned, or recommissioned with its original name. If it was a new Connie, then it could have been recommissioned with a new name.

Now I think that it is more make sense if the Enterprise A is an old Constitution that just get an overhaul, or refit. Maybe They take it out from the mothball / reserve, I don't know; refit it, and then give it to Kirk. Because it doesn't make sense when you have set your shipyard to produce the Excelsior then turn them back to build a new Constitution again, just for Kirk.

That's why the Engineers get a lot of technical problem in Star Trek V. Because it was not a brand new ship. But a decommissioned ship that take out from warehouse, refitted it with new technology, and then recommisioned her again with a new name.

And because of the age of the hull (metal fatigue almost reach the limit), it make sense when the Enterprise A has a short live.

 

[Longinus]

Now I think that it is more make sense if the Enterprise A is an old Constitution that just get an overhaul, or refit. Maybe They take it out from the mothball / reserve, I don't know; refit it, and then give it to Kirk. Because it doesn't make sense when you have set your shipyard to produce the Excelsior then turn them back to build a new Constitution again, just for Kirk.

Well, I'm sure they still had Constitution production lines at that point, refit want' that old of a class. And they continued to produce Mirandas long after they had developed the Excelsior.

 

[BillJ]

Now I think that it is more make sense if the Enterprise A is an old Constitution that just get an overhaul, or refit. Maybe They take it out from the mothball / reserve, I don't know; refit it, and then give it to Kirk. Because it doesn't make sense when you have set your shipyard to produce the Excelsior then turn them back to build a new Constitution again, just for Kirk.

Whether a refit or a new build, the ship existed before being handed to Kirk. There was only roughly four months between the destruction of the 1701 and the launch of the 1701-A. Not nearly enough time to create a new ship from scratch or refit an older build.

 

[Longinus]

Whether a refit or a new build, the ship existed before being handed to Kirk. There was only roughly four months between the destruction of the 1701 and the launch of the 1701-A. Not nearly enough time to create a new ship from scratch or refit an older build.

So? It may have been under construction over a year and was finished* shortly before being handed to Kirk. Sure, they didn't know it would end up being Enterprise under command of Captain Kirk when they started to build the ship, but you don't need to decide such things before starting the construction.

(*Or "finished" as Scotty finds out in V.)

 

[BillJ]

So?

We're having a discussion about the 1701-A and I tossed out a thought about timeframes. What exactly is the problem?