Spoilers New Picard TV Series and Litverse Continuity (may contain TV show spoilers)

[Damian]

Didn't the majority of the later films (at least from Moore to Brosnan) basically just use the titles of the books and slap them on mostly or entirely original scripts? So it wouldn't just be the order that was completely different, a lot of the time.

Yeah, a lot of times it was just the title that was used, sometimes as Stevil noted with elements of other stories or short stories. I believe On Her Majesty's Secret Service was one of the very few to stay close to the novel with few differences (which results in the continuity error of Blofeld not recognizing Bond--though I just assumed maybe Bond was very good at his disguise and Blofeld was always changing his appearance). But Stevil noted a couple other cases where the novels and movie were similar.

 

[Greg Cox]

Didn't the majority of the later films (at least from Moore to Brosnan) basically just use the titles of the books and slap them on mostly or entirely original scripts? So it wouldn't just be the order that was completely different, a lot of the time.

Yep, to the extent that, a couple of times, they actually published novelizations of the movies because they were so different from the Ian Fleming books of the same title.

 

[marlboro]

As Garak would say, they both are

Personally I prefer the later one. James Stewart, music score by Bernard Herrmann (including a Herrmann cameo), larger in scope. My favorite Hitchcock film though was "The Trouble with Harry".....ok I better stop. If I get too deep I won't be able to stop.

I agree about The Man Who Knew Too Much. I don't think Hitchcock really hit his stride till he came to America. He did some good stuff in the UK, but he rattled off 20+ years of classics once he came to Hollywood.

I think my favorite of his films is Dial M for Murder. Ray Milland's character is one of my favorite movie villains.

 

[Damian]

I agree about The Man Who Knew Too Much. I don't think Hitchcock really hit his stride till he came to America. He did some good stuff in the UK, but he rattled off 20+ years of classics once he came to Hollywood.

I think my favorite of his films is Dial M for Murder. Ray Milland's character is one of my favorite movie villains.

Definitely another good one. I read somewhere when it was originally released it was in 3-d. But his best movies were definitely in the 50's and early 60's, from about "Stage Fright" through "Marnie" (incidentally a movie Bond film maker Eon Films, loaned out Sean Connery for during his Bond Years). But I loved them all, even lesser known films like "Under Capricorn" and the earlier "Waltzes from Vienna". Speaking of 007 I had read somewhere once Ian Fleming had wanted Hitchcock to film the first Bond film before he sold the rights to Eon. I wonder what kind of 007 film Hitchcock would have made.

There are few directors in the mold of Hitchcock though. It wasn't just the plot and the actors (usually top notch), it was the attention to detail he had. The only current directors that come close I think are Paul Thomas Anderson, who has a keen eye for detail (I'm one of the few people I know that loved "Inherent Vice"), and maybe M. Night Shyamalan when he's in his element.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

And how did a thread about the Picard series turn into a James Bond discussion?

>Shrug< It's not like there's much hard information on the Picard series and how it's going to affect TrekLit yet. So the conversation went other places. As Guinan once said, conversations have a life of their own.

Didn't the majority of the later films (at least from Moore to Brosnan) basically just use the titles of the books and slap them on mostly or entirely original scripts? So it wouldn't just be the order that was completely different, a lot of the time.

The movie version of You Only Live Twice threw out a lot of the book version, partly because the book was a follow up to On Her Majesty's Secret Service, a book they hadn't adapted yet. So that was kind of out of necessity.

And Fleming really disliked what he did in his book The Spy Who Loved Me. (It was an experiment where he told the story from the Bond Girl's P.O.V., and Bond himself doesn't appear until something like halfway through the novel.) Fleming disliked it so much that he had it written into his contract for the film rights that the film version could only use his title and not any of his original story. So the film version of TSWLM is more or less a loose remake of... You Only Live Twice.

 

[Greg Cox]

It dawns on me that the thread title contains an AVENGERS reference so it's probably no surprise the thread drifted away from Trek a bit . . .

 

[marlboro]

And how did a thread about the Picard series turn into a James Bond discussion?

What are the odds of two different beings having the name Q? It's prima facie evidence that Desmond Llewelyn was part of the Continuum as far as I'm concerned.

^ I'm honestly surprised, and a little disappointed, that PAD didn't use this idea at some point.

 

[marlboro]

I wonder what kind of 007 film Hitchcock would have made.

I actually think it could have worked. If you could add in his mastery of suspense and innovative camera work while still keeping the excellent action scenes and stunt work you would really have something special.

I think he would also throw in some grittier moments like the killing scene in Torn Curtain.

Hitchcock had humor in a lot of his movies, but I think he would have toned down the lame puns, so that would eliminate my major complaint about Bond.

Oh, and all of the Bond Girls would have to be blondes by directorial fiat.

 

[Christopher]

What are the odds of two different beings having the name Q?

Don't forget John Cleese and Ben Whishaw. Or Corbin Bernsen, Gerritt Graham, Suzie Plakson, etc.

Apparently the Q Branch/Division in Bond is short for Quartermaster, the military term for the person in charge of supplies and provisions. It was never explained onscreen why the Q Continuum and its inhabitants were named that, but I read once that Roddenberry chose the name because the character was an inQuisitor, a Questioner challening Picard to provide the answer.

 

[Damian]

I actually think it could have worked. If you could add in his mastery of suspense and innovative camera work while still keeping the excellent action scenes and stunt work you would really have something special.

It would have been interesting. As this was before Eon purchased the rights to the Bond films (except for Casino Royale that was previously sold) Hitchcock would have had a say in the creation of the Bond franchise. He was never interested in sequels so he probably would have just done one and moved on. But it'd probably be similar to some of his other spy thrillers like Torn Curtain, Topaz, or even Foreign Correspondent (though not a spy film per se, it did have a lot of elements of a spy thriller). So it's certainly a genre he was pretty familiar with.

Don't forget John Cleese and Ben Whishaw

Speaking of Cleese, I had kind of hoped he would return as Q when Q returned to Skyfall. Nothing against Whishaw, he was fine in the role. But Cleese reminded me a bit more of Llewellyn. He was much more comfortable with the back and forth with 007. I still loved his comeback to Bond in "Die Another Day" when Bond tells him he's smarter then he looks, and he retorts "Still, better than looking smarter than you are" Cleese can deliver lines like that with his typical wit.

Apparently the Q Branch/Division in Bond is short for Quartermaster

Yep, that was it exactly. Q's actual name is given once during Llewellyn's time in the role (once before he took the role in in Dr No) as Major Boothroyd in "The Spy Who Loved Me".

 

[ClayinCA]

What are the odds of two different beings having the name Q? It's prima facie evidence that Desmond Llewelyn was part of the Continuum as far as I'm concerned.

^ I'm honestly surprised, and a little disappointed, that PAD didn't use this idea at some point.

He did, though I forget the name of the novel. Calhoun was getting ready to go on some mission and the "equipment officer," who's described as a dead ringer for John deLancie, comes and gives him all these gadgets. After Calhoun leaves, the officer disappears into thin air. It was done with all Peter David's usual subtlety.

 

[DGCatAniSiri]

He did, though I forget the name of the novel. Calhoun was getting ready to go on some mission and the "equipment officer," who's described as a dead ringer for John deLancie, comes and gives him all these gadgets. After Calhoun leaves, the officer disappears into thin air. It was done with all Peter David's usual subtlety.

Off the top of my head, sounds like Double or Nothing, the crossover between TNG and NF in Double Helix, where Admiral Nechayev recruits Calhoun for an undercover op.

 

[Christopher]

Yeah, I recall that Double or Nothing was pretty much a Bond pastiche throughout.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Speaking of 007 I had read somewhere once Ian Fleming had wanted Hitchcock to film the first Bond film before he sold the rights to Eon. I wonder what kind of 007 film Hitchcock would have made.

I actually think it could have worked. If you could add in his mastery of suspense and innovative camera work while still keeping the excellent action scenes and stunt work you would really have something special.

I think he would also throw in some grittier moments like the killing scene in Torn Curtain.

Hitchcock had humor in a lot of his movies, but I think he would have toned down the lame puns, so that would eliminate my major complaint about Bond.

Oh, and all of the Bond Girls would have to be blondes by directorial fiat.

It would have been interesting. As this was before Eon purchased the rights to the Bond films (except for Casino Royale that was previously sold) Hitchcock would have had a say in the creation of the Bond franchise. He was never interested in sequels so he probably would have just done one and moved on. But it'd probably be similar to some of his other spy thrillers like Torn Curtain, Topaz, or even Foreign Correspondent (though not a spy film per se, it did have a lot of elements of a spy thriller). So it's certainly a genre he was pretty familiar with.

Cary Grant could've been a pretty great Bond.

And From Russia With Love shows a pretty heavy Hitchcock influence, IMO. The sequence where a helicopter is chasing 007 is pretty similar to the famous cropduster scene from North by Northwest.

Speaking of Cleese, I had kind of hoped he would return as Q when Q returned to Skyfall. Nothing against Whishaw, he was fine in the role. But Cleese reminded me a bit more of Llewellyn. He was much more comfortable with the back and forth with 007. I still loved his comeback to Bond in "Die Another Day" when Bond tells him he's smarter then he looks, and he retorts "Still, better than looking smarter than you are" Cleese can deliver lines like that with his typical wit.

Yeah, Cleese only being around for two 007 films is one of the missed opportunities of the franchise. I like Ben Whishaw in the role, but I kind of wish they'd kept Cleese around for the Daniel Craig era the way they did Judi Dench. Reinventing Q as a young tech genius for Skyfall was a stroke of genius, though.

 

[Damian]

Yeah, Cleese only being around for two 007 films is one of the missed opportunities of the franchise. I like Ben Whishaw in the role, but I kind of wish they'd kept Cleese around for the Daniel Craig era the way they did Judi Dench. Reinventing Q as a young tech genius for Skyfall was a stroke of genius, though.

Yeah, it's no knock on Whishaw. It's just the part of the whole Bond-Q relationship is the back and forth. Q respected Bond but was always, um, admonishing him (I guess that's the right word) about returning the equipment in working order. He could get away with it because he was older and a bit wiser. Whishaw is so much younger than Craig that you lose a lot of that. Whishaw-Q is not likely to make the same kind of comments to Bond that a Cleese-Q would (in a lot of ways Cleese has the perfect personality to take on the role). Though I could certainly see Whishaw in a good role for the films. There's plenty of room for everyone.

 

[lukesband]

Very new here.... but surely having Picard marry Crusher is where the show was going anyway without the books? By having them married but Bev was on Romulus when it went boom and having Picard’s son estranged would let them tell pretty much all the stories they want whilst preserving most of what we’ve all read?

 

[marlboro]

I really enjoyed the Genesis Wave books, especially the first 2 books, and would highly recommend them. They had an epic feel. They included Maltz from TSFS.)

Maltz was a real highlight of the GW books for me. I would love to see a book showing what he was up to between TSFS and GW.

 

[ClayinCA]

Off the top of my head, sounds like Double or Nothing, the crossover between TNG and NF in Double Helix, where Admiral Nechayev recruits Calhoun for an undercover op.

That's the one! I knew one of you guys would know.

 

[The Wormhole]

surely having Picard marry Crusher is where the show was going anyway without the books?

No, not really. Aside from Attached and AGT, a serious romance between Picard and Crusher has never really been indulged in any way on screen.

 

[Starbreaker]

Very new here.... but surely having Picard marry Crusher is where the show was going anyway without the books? By having them married but Bev was on Romulus when it went boom and having Picard’s son estranged would let them tell pretty much all the stories they want whilst preserving most of what we’ve all read?

Not really. The only person allowed to have a happy relationship in all of TNG was Troi and Riker, and even that took up to the very last couple of movies. Crusher and Picard were divorced in All Good Things. I think they might could go that route.

The writing staff is going to want to do their own thing and I doubt they'll be Memory Betaing Picard's life. If he is married to Beverly with a son named Rene, I will be shocked.