New Intelligence-Led Policing Strategy Strives to Stop Crime Before it

[CuttingEdge100]

Re: New Intelligence-Led Policing Strategy Strives to Stop Crime Befor

ThankQ

Unfortunately there exists the great potential for this intelligence-led policing strategy to eventually expand into using aggressive surveillance and data-mining to establish basically something out of Minority Report

 

[Sephiroth]

Re: New Intelligence-Led Policing Strategy Strives to Stop Crime Befor

Then you'd probably be taken aback by the "stop and frisk" practices used in New York City. Cops can basically stop you for no reason at all and give you a patdown.

You would be correct. I think this is unethical.

not to mention unconstitutilnal

 

[CuttingEdge100]

Re: New Intelligence-Led Policing Strategy Strives to Stop Crime Befor

Sephiroth,

True

 

[KJbushway]

Re: New Intelligence-Led Policing Strategy Strives to Stop Crime Befor

Well if this is some Criminal profile system, I just think about the hundreds of Americans who are going to lose their job, health-care, etc. The last thing we need is more computers taking American jobs.

 

[sojourner]

Re: New Intelligence-Led Policing Strategy Strives to Stop Crime Befor

Building, servicing, and using those computers generate jobs too.

 

[CuttingEdge100]

Re: New Intelligence-Led Policing Strategy Strives to Stop Crime Befor

Sojourner

We already have computers that can run scientific experiments, eventually we'll have computers that will not only be fully autonomous; they will eventually be able to create better designs than we ever could. That would even put computer programmers and designers out of business.

 

[sojourner]

Re: New Intelligence-Led Policing Strategy Strives to Stop Crime Befor

^And they'll still need us to build, service, and use them. We will just have new job titles: slaves.

 

[Jadzia]

Re: New Intelligence-Led Policing Strategy Strives to Stop Crime Befor

You would be correct. I think this is unethical.

not to mention unconstitutilnal

I've never rated constitutions very highly. They're an attempt to put ethics into words, but like all kinds of legal writing, readers will quibble over precise definitions, form distorted interpretations of what was originally meant, and so manage to find ways to circumvent the spirit of the constitution.

Trying to reduce ethics to words is dangerous.

I feel that we should focus on what is ethical/unethical rather than caring whether an action is consistent with an ancient written document.

 

[Sephiroth]

Re: New Intelligence-Led Policing Strategy Strives to Stop Crime Befor

still, the constitution is the law of the land, and is quite relevant today despite >ahem< being ancient

 

[Chaos Descending]

Re: New Intelligence-Led Policing Strategy Strives to Stop Crime Befor

You would be correct. I think this is unethical.

not to mention unconstitutilnal

I've never rated constitutions very highly. They're an attempt to put ethics into words, but like all kinds of legal writing, readers will quibble over precise definitions, form distorted interpretations of what was originally meant, and so manage to find ways to circumvent the spirit of the constitution.

Trying to reduce ethics to words is dangerous.

I feel that we should focus on what is ethical/unethical rather than caring whether an action is consistent with an ancient written document.

So, the law is irrelevant?

 

[Jadzia]

Re: New Intelligence-Led Policing Strategy Strives to Stop Crime Befor

So, the law is irrelevant?

It's relevant insofar as it is an attempt to put ethics into words. But the focus should be on those underlying ethics, rather than the literalism of the words.

 

[Chaos Descending]

Re: New Intelligence-Led Policing Strategy Strives to Stop Crime Befor

So... why have written laws at all, then?

 

[Jadzia]

Re: New Intelligence-Led Policing Strategy Strives to Stop Crime Befor

There are a lot of literalists and mentally impaired people in the world, who struggle to negotiate frameworks that are not rule based. I would estimate perhaps 1/4 of the population. These people might have exceedingly blurry vision when it comes to weighing up what is ethical or not.

But pretty much all people can understand black and white rules and threat of punishment, even though that makes a poor substitute for ethics.

 

[CuttingEdge100]

Re: New Intelligence-Led Policing Strategy Strives to Stop Crime Befor

Jadzia

I think it's extremely dangerous to do away with the written rule of law. While I agree that there is sometimes the spirit of the law and the letter of a law and that should be factored into the equation, but both are important

 

[Samurai8472]

Re: New Intelligence-Led Policing Strategy Strives to Stop Crime Befor

^And they'll still need us to build, service, and use them. We will just have new job titles: slaves.

They'll make us work in the factories making more T-101's

 

[Jadzia]

Re: New Intelligence-Led Policing Strategy Strives to Stop Crime Befor

I think it's extremely dangerous to do away with the written rule of law.

Where would you rather live?

(i) A society in which all people follow written laws, whatever those may be, but nobody has any real grasp of ethics. So the people might enjoy finding loopholes in those laws, because it allows them greater freedom to do what they like to one another.

(ii) A society in which all people have a well developed sense of ethics, and who live by those ethics. This society doesn't have any laws.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Re: New Intelligence-Led Policing Strategy Strives to Stop Crime Befor

I think it's extremely dangerous to do away with the written rule of law.

Where would you rather live?

(i) A society in which all people follow written laws, whatever those may be, but nobody has any real grasp of ethics. So the people might enjoy finding loopholes in those laws, because it allows them greater freedom to do what they like to one another.

(ii) A society in which all people have a well developed sense of ethics, and who live by those ethics. This society doesn't have any laws.

(ii) is a fantasy so it's a pretty absurd choice.

 

[Jadzia]

Re: New Intelligence-Led Policing Strategy Strives to Stop Crime Befor

(i) is also a fantasy because not everyone follows written laws. If they did then prisons would be permanently empty.

It's a hypothetical question. It doesn't matter if one (or both) options are considered to be a fantasy.

It's an easy choice for me. I would prefer (ii).

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Re: New Intelligence-Led Policing Strategy Strives to Stop Crime Befor

I find hypotheticals with no possibility of realistic existence to be quite a waste of time. There will never be a society in which all laws are followed, and a society without laws will devolve into chaos.

While you may find examples of (i) and (ii) in very small communities where taboo and shaming rituals discourage lawbreaking or keep people in line, they don't work on the scale of something as large as a city or bigger. Once you get to a scale where everyone doesn't know everyone else, you have to have a common legal framework in order to establish and maintain order. It is not ideal but I have yet to see a better alternative.

 

[Jadzia]

Re: New Intelligence-Led Policing Strategy Strives to Stop Crime Befor

I find hypotheticals with no possibility of realistic existence to be quite a waste of time.

I disagree. Hypotheticals can be used to illustrate a principle. In this case, they help us to identify what is ideal.

I feel that ethics is something which demands a top-down solution. We formulate the goal (the ideal), and then break it down into smaller components which have to be debated against one another with similarly hypothetical questions. At the lowest levels you get something practical.

Crucially, the higher levels of ethics take precedence, so we have to formulate those before we can move down to the lower levels, and that's how top-down design works.