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New Frontier book series and New Earth. Anyone else like them?

While I understand it’s decided on at levels far beyond any of our pay grade, and that there are practical reasons for it, I do have to admit some frustration with the corporate decision which says that things like the Star Wars Legends and the Star Trek novel continuity of the last twenty-ish years can’t see new material alongside the new continuity.

I mean, comics have had multiple continuities in production simultaneously, like Marvel having their main line and the Ultimate series, to say nothing of the MCU being its own thing, plus every now and then a video game or animated series would come along and tell its own spin on old stories. Why can’t we see that for other media and franchises?

I mean, I’m fully accepting of things as they are, just that I’d love to see continuations of the ongoing lines along with “new canon” continuity. Because I’m invested in the setting and stories we have now and would like more.


I wonder about that. Just focusing on the novels for a moment we have been told novel readers are just a very small percentage of fans. That's why the show runners really don't feel any obligation to use the novel continuity in their show. Why be consistent with storylines that only a small fraction of Trekkies are even aware of? Ok, I can see that.

But why not continue the novel continuity as an alternate universe style story? You can certainly have novels based around the new shows. They can easily be distinguished by using the Picard banner on stories based on the new show, and The Next Generation banner (even the one they've used on the books for years now) for continuing novel verse books (along with DS9, Voyager, Enterprise, Titan, etc.).

Since the novel readers are just a small, but loyal, percentage of Trekkies, they'll continue to buy books based on the novelverse continuity. They have a built in block of customers that is not going anywhere. I know I'd continue buying books in the relaunch continuity, and I'm sure there are others as well. I do think there is still money to have for S&S in the continuity relaunches. And even if I love the new Picard show, I'd still love to read continuing stories in TNG, DS9, Voyager, and Enterprise (and Titan for that matter). I loved those shows as well.
 
While I understand it’s decided on at levels far beyond any of our pay grade, and that there are practical reasons for it, I do have to admit some frustration with the corporate decision which says that things like the Star Wars Legends and the Star Trek novel continuity of the last twenty-ish years can’t see new material alongside the new continuity.

I mean, comics have had multiple continuities in production simultaneously, like Marvel having their main line and the Ultimate series, to say nothing of the MCU being its own thing, plus every now and then a video game or animated series would come along and tell its own spin on old stories. Why can’t we see that for other media and franchises?

Mainly it's because there's a difference in the relative prominence of the media. With Marvel or DC, even though the comics are the original continuity, the adaptations in mass media like radio, film, and TV have almost always had much larger audiences than the original comic books, especially in the modern era. So the mass-media version is big enough to have a life of its own, and the comics often change to reflect the mass-media version in hopes of attracting some of its much huger audience. Conversely, prose or comics tie-ins to a TV or movie franchise are read by a tiny fraction of the main franchise's audience -- and their makers want them to be accessible to new readers coming in from that larger audience. Which means making them consistent with the version those new readers are familiar with, rather than some alternate version that's only meaningful to the relatively small existing audience. So in both cases, the smaller follows the lead of the larger.


Since the novel readers are just a small, but loyal, percentage of Trekkies, they'll continue to buy books based on the novelverse continuity. They have a built in block of customers that is not going anywhere.

There's always going to be attrition over time for various reasons, so it's unwise to rely entirely on a pre-existing audience. And at a time like this when the Trek franchise is growing again, it makes sense to prioritize appealing to new readers and expanding the audience.
 
There's always going to be attrition over time for various reasons, so it's unwise to rely entirely on a pre-existing audience. And at a time like this when the Trek franchise is growing again, it makes sense to prioritize appealing to new readers and expanding the audience.

Hmm. I guess. Maybe that's were e-books could play a role then.

But then I guess you'd need someone to write those stories. I imagine the pay for e-books isn't as large as it is for print. Plus I'm sure all you guys would rather write for current shows and the original series then for a spin off show that ended 15 to 20 years ago.
 
I mean, comics have had multiple continuities in production simultaneously, like Marvel having their main line and the Ultimate series, to say nothing of the MCU being its own thing, plus every now and then a video game or animated series would come along and tell its own spin on old stories. Why can’t we see that for other media and franchises?
I've been saying that a LONG time. Why do Trek tie-ins always have to be the tail? Why can't they be the dog for once? A novel line rebooting TOS could be amazing. Trek has infinite alternate realities, and none of the tie-ins are canon anyway, so what's the harm in trying?
 
A novel line rebooting TOS could be amazing. Trek has infinite alternate realities, and none of the tie-ins are canon anyway, so what's the harm in trying?

We did try something like that, with Myriad Universes. The fact that we aren't still doing those suggests that there wasn't enough audience interest to make an alternate-reality book series profitable.

There are a lot of franchises where multiple continuities are accepted, but unfortunately, Trek hasn't been one. I'd hoped that the Kelvin films would open the door for more alternative takes, but apparently the audience isn't ready for that yet. Maybe once a generation of fans has grown up knowing both Prime and Kelvin side by side, there will be room for more alternatives.
 
I'm still frustrated we only got 3 Myriad Universes books, I loved those.
Even though I know there's almost no chance of it, I'm still going to hold out hope that the novelverse will be able to continue as an alternate universe until we get an official statement on the future of the books.
Yeah. Star Wars in particular; it seems like the "Legends" branding is pretty clear and the fanbase is large enough to be able to navigate that. It would've been nice if they had at least commissioned a set of 5-10 books in various eras to tie up loose ends. Ah well.
Yeah, I was surprised too. I thought once they separated the old EU out into Legends that would mean they could allow that version of the universe to continue. All they'd have to do is put the "Legends" label on it, and everyone would know it's part of the old EU.
 
I'm still frustrated we only got 3 Myriad Universes books, I loved those.

Well, we got nine MyrU novels packaged in three volumes. But yeah, I wish we'd done more. I had an idea for a second one that I would've loved to tackle.


I thought once they separated the old EU out into Legends that would mean they could allow that version of the universe to continue. All they'd have to do is put the "Legends" label on it, and everyone would know it's part of the old EU.

I can understand why they'd want to keep their focus on building a consistent new continuity alongside the new movies and shows, rather than having a competing continuity alongside it. Maybe someday they'll be willing to revisit Legends, though.
 
I just remembered that they kind of did, they published a brand new issue of the original Marvel Star Wars series that ran back in the '70s - '80s. But that was part of a special 80th anniversary thing where Marvel was publishing new issues of a whole bunch of their old comics, so it wasn't really specific to Star Wars.
 
Maybe once a generation of fans has grown up knowing both Prime and Kelvin side by side, there will be room for more alternatives.

I'm not sure I'd hold out much hope for that. The sample size of Kelvin films is very small compared to prime universe works. And what will the next film be...and when? I think the Kelvin films are fading from memory a bit, while the shows in the prime universe are continuing, at a rapid pace.

Now maybe newer fans are more open to things like more extreme production design changes and storylines. But I probably wouldn't rely on the Kelvin films to allow for Star Trek shows unrelated to past shows.

I'm still frustrated we only got 3 Myriad Universes books, I loved those.

Another book series I somehow missed. I'm slowly catching up though. I just got the Gorkon series books (though I still need The Brave and the Bold) and Mere Anarchy (the print edition). So that will have to be my next book series to get.

I know it's not totally related but I really enjoyed the Mirror Universe novels--I imagine I should like Myriad Universes as well.
 
I know it's not totally related but I really enjoyed the Mirror Universe novels--I imagine I should like Myriad Universes as well.

Well, they're sort of related in that MyrU was an extension and outgrowth of the MU trade paperbacks, with the same format, the same title font, and a name chosen for its similar sound. I suppose you could consider MU a subset of MyrU -- they're all alternate timelines, it's just that one has more stories about it than the others. (Too bad we never got to see sequels to any of the MyrU novels.)
 
Well, they're sort of related in that MyrU was an extension and outgrowth of the MU trade paperbacks, with the same format, the same title font, and a name chosen for its similar sound. I suppose you could consider MU a subset of MyrU -- they're all alternate timelines, it's just that one has more stories about it than the others. (Too bad we never got to see sequels to any of the MyrU novels.)

Yeah, when you think about it the Mirror Universe novels developed that way--starting with a large book with 3 smaller stories in each.

I always loved timeline stories. Even you're basic changing the timeline stories and having to go back to fix it. Alternate timelines adds another layer of complexity that's always a lot of fun.
 
I always loved timeline stories. Even you're basic changing the timeline stories and having to go back to fix it. Alternate timelines adds another layer of complexity that's always a lot of fun.

I'm not crazy about "fix the timeline" stories since they're such a cliche by this point, as well as making no scientific sense and generally being logically inconsistent within themselves. So I prefer exploring alternates in stories where they just are, where there's nothing to be erased or overwritten or replaced.

Myriad Universes was basically the alternate history genre applied to Star Trek. They weren't stories about characters from our reality discovering an alternate like in the "portal" subgenre, but just stories in which history took a different path. I'm pretty sure mine (Places of Exile) was the only one that made its characters aware of the Prime timeline or any of its events.
 
Well, those movies do form a self-contained canon onto themselves, which I think is how most viewers see them.
:beats head against wall:

No, they don't. They form a self-contained continuity. But the canon is the Marvel Comics that they're based on. That's the original text. The movies are tie-ins to the comics.
At the risk of further cranial trauma, here's the thing: You're both right.

Keith, you're using the traditional literary definition of a canon, while @WebLurker is using the more recent colloquial definition of "official cohesive continuity" or "what 'really' happened," but both are now in common use and accepted in different contexts as both a noun and an adjective.

(I'll also add, for my own millionth time, that something like Marvel is a terrible example to use for this kind of distinction, as both DC and Marvel have built in the idea that every alternate continuity "actually" exists, no matter how wacky it is. There's an entire Oscar-winning animated movie about this which you should check out.)

It's like the word "literally." No amount of prescriptivist insistence will change the way people are using it now, and no amount of the more recent descriptive usage will negate the original meaning which continues to be used. I mean, you can get on people's case about "text" not being a verb, but that train has sailed.

After all, words are meaningless by themselves...it's the practice that matters.
 
After all, words are meaningless by themselves...it's the practice that matters.

Yeah, but in this case the practice creates confusion because people expect the official definition of "canon" to conform to their own vernacular one. So it is a problem, not because it's changed, but because it's changed in a way that leads to incorrect or unrealistic expectations.
 
It's like the word "literally." No amount of prescriptivist insistence will change the way people are using it now, and no amount of the more recent descriptive usage will negate the original meaning which continues to be used. I mean, you can get on people's case about "text" not being a verb, but that train has sailed.

Honestly, the prescriptivists have a kind of weak case. "Literally" is being used as a hyperbolic intensifier; when someone says "their head literally exploded" they don't mean, as the prescriptivists complain, "their head figuratively exploded;" it's obvious from context if they're being figurative. They are using "literally" in its original sense to underlie the imagery; it's the same intensification arms race that's been happening with profanity. Imagery is no longer moving enough, so the extra word suggests this isn't everyday exaggeration; this exaggeration is worth it, by exaggerating it to a further degree.

I blame dictionaries, honestly, by typically using very simple, to the point definitions for different senses of a word, without drawing connections between them. I saw the other day a dictionary definition of the verb "to brick," to render an electronic device nonfunctional. That's technically correct, but I feel like you're missing something by not pointing out that it originated as, appropriately enough, exaggerated imagery, that a cell phone that's been made inert is in size, shape, and, now, function, very similar to a literal brick.

Yeah, but in this case the practice creates confusion because people expect the official definition of "canon" to conform to their own vernacular one. So it is a problem, not because it's changed, but because it's changed in a way that leads to incorrect or unrealistic expectations.

Well, by the official definition of "canon," shouldn't it only be defined after the work in question is a dead issue and you can actually sort the apocrypha out from the canon in a final and definitive manner? It's not like the Infancy Gospels began "A/N: No copyright intended. Balthazar is OC, do not steal" or "The plot and background details are solely the author's interpretation of the childhood of Jesus Christ, and vary in some respects from the universe as created by Almighty God."

I'd expect "The Star Trek Canon" in the traditional definition would include stuff like "Yesteryear" and "Vulcan's Glory" and omit "Threshold" and "The Alternative Factor," which is a can of worms none of us wants to deal with. Honestly, the thing relating to Trek that most suits the original concept of "a canon" is probably something like the novelverse flowchart.
 
Well, by the official definition of "canon," shouldn't it only be defined after the work in question is a dead issue and you can actually sort the apocrypha out from the canon in a final and definitive manner?

No, because it's not something that needs to be decided. There is no "official definition of canon." It has never been an officially designated label. It's a metaphor people use to refer to a comprehensive and complete body of creative works. It's a description, a nickname. It doesn't define what something is, it's just a handy way to refer to it.

The canon is just the totality of the work itself. It means all the creations that constitute essential parts of a body of work, whether they're continuous or not (for instance, the Shakespeare canon is all of the literary works confirmed to be authored by Shakespeare, even though few of them share a continuity). If something is outside that canon, that means it isn't an essential piece of the work, but is optional or derivative, a secondary creation by a different party.

Granted, things like TV series have multiple creators, but history shows that it's virtually impossible to make tie-ins canonical unless the creators of the actual canon are directly involved in their creation. So canon is almost always a very simple and obvious thing to define: It's the work of the original makers, as opposed to imitations by others.


I'd expect "The Star Trek Canon" in the traditional definition would include stuff like "Yesteryear" and "Vulcan's Glory" and omit "Threshold" and "The Alternative Factor," which is a can of worms none of us wants to deal with. Honestly, the thing relating to Trek that most suits the original concept of "a canon" is probably something like the novelverse flowchart.

Vulcan's Glory is a novel that contradicts quite a few later and earlier Trek episodes. Despite being by D.C. Fontana, it never quite fit with the way TOS portrayed Vulcans or their presence in Starfleet. So there's no reason to consider it part of the canon. It wasn't written by Fontana in her capacity as a Trek TV series's story editor, but as a freelance author contracted by Pocket Books.

I'll concede that it is possible for authors to declare that a certain one of their works is no longer part of their canon, i.e. no longer considered an essential piece within the whole. After all, my upcoming novel Arachne's Crime replaces my first published story "Aggravated Vehicular Genocide" within the canon of my original universe. So I'll grant that "Threshold" has been decanonized by its own authors. But such things are rare exceptions, not routine practices. In general, it's enough to understand that a canon is a specific comprehensive body of works. It's not something that has to be litigated in every single case; most of the time it's going to be very straightforward.

And canon and continuity are usually distinct concepts, because many canons have discontinuities within them that they don't bother to resolve. Many canons include stories that contradict each other and pretend they actually fit, like the Marvel Comics canon with its sliding timescale. It's rare that creators actually bother to come out and say "That story no longer happened." Usually they just pretend it happened in broad strokes but differed in details, or just tiptoe around the question of whether it happened. A canon is a whole body of works, and a flawed piece can still contribute to the whole even if it's mostly glossed over. For instance, "The Alternative Factor" has mostly been ignored, but it's the original source of the term "dilithium," which is essential to the Trek universe. So it's not accurate to say that it no longer counts within the canon. It made one major contribution to the canon, just not to the continuity.
 
Just finished Missing in Action.
Surprised they actually killed him off.
Didn't expect that.
Only three books to go now. Be interesting to see what happens next. I'd love to see what they did during the Borg war but I doubt that'll be in them.
 
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Just finished Missing in Action. SPOILER REMOVED!
Only three books to go now. Be interesting to see what happens next. I'd love to see what they did during the Borg war but I doubt that'll be in them.

Please go back and put your spoiler in a spoiler tag. Not everyone has read this and to know that something major happens before reading it is not good.
 
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