Spoilers New Cast Photos and Episode 1 Promo Pictures

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by Tuskin38, Jan 3, 2019.

  1. NeoStar9

    NeoStar9 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Yeah there were several over the course season 1. There weren't any arrive at planet and just find out what's there because it wasn't that kind of story but they left the ship to go planet side and over to other ships a number of times. The opening scene and the final mission are damn away missions.
     
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  2. Rahul

    Rahul Commodore Commodore

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    Well yeah, if you count every time they set foot on a planet, there were even more! - Admiral Cornwell was captured on a planet, they went back to Earth etc.

    If you count "classic Trek away team mission", there was exactly one episode - the one on Pahvo. Maybe a second one with the MU planet. But no, I'm not counting "we're beaming down on a planet to commit genocide" as an "away mission". Fuck that.
     
  3. Succubint

    Succubint Captain Captain

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    What about the original USS Shenzhou away mission of Georgiou and Burnham to fix the well? Also the 4 person away mission to investigate the USS Glenn where they found the tardigrade and recovered the spore drive equipment. Also the mission to save Sarek where Tyler/Tilly/Burnham went into the nebulae to find him.

    ETA: There was also that Tyler/Burnham away mission to plant the sensor devices on Kol's ship of death in order to get the data for the 133 jumps.

    Whether or not you want to count the mission on Qo'onos, it's still technically a classic away mission with set objectives and a team working to achieve their goal on behalf of Starfleet via infiltration. Yeah, 3 of them didn't know the real aim of the mission as sanctioned by SF, but that was a significant plot point that gets discovered and then resolved.

    And I just realized that there's also the mission to abduct T'Kuvma from his own ship which ultimately goes south.

    So, all in all, in my opinion, there were plenty of what can be called away team missions in Disco's first season. Whether they fit your or mine or anyone else's definition of 'classic' is likely to be subjective. I don't think it has to be setting foot on an alien planet to qualify, for example. Nor do I think the mission has to be solely exploratory to qualify.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2019
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  4. Rahul

    Rahul Commodore Commodore

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    I'd count the Shenzhou shoot-the-well-watery-again mission, if it weren't just a teaser and be plot-relevant in any kind of way.

    All the other examples are just "leave the ship to blow stuff up" (even entire planets). That's as generic as it gets for sci-fi, and could happen on any other show. Is Austin Powers infiltrating Dr- Evil's quarters an "away mission"?

    I'm talking about "classic Star Trek away mission". Beam down the planet, do the stuff, poke the thing-y with a stick. Something that Stargate did a lot as well, whereas I wouldn't for example count the various Battlestar Galactica fly-down-to-fight-the-enemy missions.

    So yeah, the definition is very murky. What I'm getting at is there was eactly one mission that felt like a classic, Star Trek-type away mission, and that was the one on Phavo. And that's really too little for a Star Trek show. Everything else was just characters moving around to different places to do the same stuff as usual.
     
  5. Succubint

    Succubint Captain Captain

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    Like I said, it's subjective. Because I strongly disagree with your assessment of their objectives and I believe a lot of people would agree with me. I think the assertion that all the other examples are just "leave the ship to blow things up" really does a disservice to what the characters were actually trying to do. But hey, that's your opinion, which is fine, I guess. Note that your original comment had no 'classic' qualifier, by the way. Not that that matters, since you have moved the goal posts since then in your subsequent comments.

    Here's what I interpreted as the goals of those away missions that you dismissed as just leaving the ship to blow things up:

    Objective: Abduct T'Kuvma alive to cripple the Klingon attacks. NOT to blow things up. It failed, but still the mission was still an attempt to reduce further violence and death on both sides.

    Objective: Board the USS Glenn, investigate what went wrong, search for any survivors and recover a specific piece of experimental tech. During the mission they discovered a Klingon combatant who died at the claws of the Tardigrade and had to retreat from a strange lifeform's unprovoked attack. The scuttling of the ship occurred only after the away team was safely returning/returned and to prevent it ending up in Klingon hands - for obvious reasons. It's not until the final scene that we learn that Landry and Lorca beamed the creature aboard to study/exploit. Which becomes a plot point later where Burnham, Tilly, Stamets and Culber all end up defying Lorca over, due to ethical concerns.

    Objective: Enter the nebulae to search for Ambassador Sarek, an important Federation dignitary. Hopefully to recover him alive. No blowing of anything up (by them).

    Objective: To protect the planet of Pahvo which was defenseless (or so they thought) to the Klingons, secretly board the Ship of Death and plant important sensors to enable the USS Discovery to get past the ship's cloak using the spore tech. Yes, this one does have the goal of "blowing stuff up" eventually, but only because they are the closest available ship and feel obligated to try to save Pahvo species from retaliatory annihilation using whatever means they have available. Even then, it turns out that Lorca's true objective was to collect data to enable him to return to the MU. There's also the twist of finding Admiral Cornwell still alive and rescuing her. All violence on the mission was in self defence, to protect Cornwell, or to give the USS Discovery just enough time to get the intel they needed to protect the planet below.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2019
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  6. Rahul

    Rahul Commodore Commodore

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    Eh. I can understand where you're coming from. Since, yes, they left the ship more than once (even though still waaay less than on any other Trek show). That much is undeniable.

    But I still stand by my original statement - even though, yes, it probably needed more qualifiers to make clear:
    There was only one episode - the Pahvo one - that was centered around a classic Star Trek away mission.

    You're right, that in other episodes there were also short sequences where someone left the ship to do the thing, did the thing, and then came back. Technically, these very well count as "away missions". It's just that most of these were such short events, and usually involved only moving from one familiar standing set of the show to go to a different one, that they never felt like "real" away missions. They were always more background noise in a show that largely took place on the same three or four ships all the time. I just miss away missions being the focus, the main event of an episode....




    I don't know, does that make it any clearer what I meant?
    Kind of the original Star Trek/Stargate-model, where they got to a new planet or place, with or without a clear objective, and then the main episode centered around that adventure they were having there. Which I immensely prefer over everyone standing in their own headquarters, plotting war and having interpersonal drama, and only leaving once in a while for tiny side-quests.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2019
  7. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    That plot's been done before, there's close to seven hundred episodes of other Trek shows where that's all that happens in the majority of them. Time for something different. While Disco has some undeniable flaws, this isn't one of them.
     
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  8. Awesome Possum

    Awesome Possum Sent From The Future Moderator

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    It was a mission and they went away from the ship. :shrug: Away missions aren't decided by their morality.

    Other than the fact that they were supposed to commit genocide, it was pretty cool. They went to Qonos and there were Orions wandering around. That's some classic Trek stuff. Plus the whole point was the crew standing up for Starfleet ideals, not that they almost didn't.
     
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  9. Succubint

    Succubint Captain Captain

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    I think I get what you're saying Rahul. The events in S1 did not really allow for the kinds of missions you wanted, though, due to the narrative structure and deliberately high stakes involved. Also, because of the kind of ship Burnham was assigned to, and the status of the Federation and Starfleet at the time. The writers had a different story they wanted to tell from the beginning. One which has clearly clashed with your expectations and levels of enjoyment.

    I suspect that you probably still won't get exactly what you want in this upcoming season, but I do think that there might be more room for the possibility of it. It really depends on where the writers want to go with the red signal stuff, I think. How much exploring they will do, in order to make contact/understand what is going on.

    I have, in the past, enjoyed the new adventure each week kind of shows (like Stargate), but overall I tend to prefer the more focused story-telling, and interpersonal character drama stuff, myself. Especially if it's going to be appointment viewing. For me, the previous season was a pretty great ride, but there's always room for improvement. Hopefully this next season ticks more boxes for you as well, so that you can enjoy DSC more.

    I'm looking forward to Saru possibly revisiting his home situation, exploring the family dynamic between Michael and Spock/Spock and Sarek. I'm also really keen to see what Anson Mount brings to this newest version of Captain Pike, what his command style will be like and so on. And seeing where they go with Culber and Stamets, how they bring the good doctor back into the story.
     
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  10. Rahul

    Rahul Commodore Commodore

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    A "superhero-story" is about a person gaining superpowers, donning a funky costume, and then go out in the world to do some good. That plot also has been done close to seven hundred times before.

    And yet, NO ONE would think that's a burden, or try to tell a superhero story without any of these elements. Because they're not "the plot" itself, their a basic narrative structure, that defines the genre itself. Take that away, and you're left with a show being ashamed of it's own identity.

    Star Tek has "to boldly go where no one has gone before" right there in the mission statement. Take that away, and what you're left with isn't "Star Trek" anymore, but "generic SF-show #351"

    @Succubint: While I see your point, I think especially a grand war arc would have lend itself for more planet-side adventures! For espionage missions, scientific research, but also to negotiate with other, neutral species to join their side, get resources, or other support. That would have actually made the war feel bigger in scope, and not as if it was limited to the inside of a handfull of starships and mission control rooms.

    So yeah, I think that was a big oversight in season 1. But also, considering a a big part of the marketing for S2 is the crew going around in space-suits in strange environments, I hope we can look forward to more "Star Trek"-type away missions.
     
  11. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    You know, when most people think of "generic sci-fi" Star Trek is almost immediately what they think of.

    But regardless, I'm more interested in embracing what Star Trek could be, not dictating what it should be.
     
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  12. Noname Given

    Noname Given Admiral Admiral

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    Depends how you define such a mission.

    - Georgiou and Burnham in the opening episode was such a mission on an alien planet.
    - So was boarding the disabled Klingon ship.
    - So was sending a party to the U.S.S. Glen.
    - So was the mission to Pharvo.
    - So was the mission to Q'Nos.

    So, yeah, in 15 episodes - 5 'Away Missions' = 1 every 3rd episode.

    That seems about average in the scheme of past Star trek series.

    Hell, if you use your definition of "To explore an unknown world..." the fan favorite Star Trek series here - DS9 - probably had the WORST ratio of 'Away Missions' to episode ratio in the entire franchise. But no one seems to complain about it ERT DS9. :)
     
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  13. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    You should really read all the thread before replying, he’s already gone over all that ;)
     
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  14. Rahul

    Rahul Commodore Commodore

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    I'm outing myself as... not really a fan of DS9.
    Like, don't think it's a bad show, it's pretty good actually. But it's the only Star Trek series I wouldn't really call myself a "fan" of. I just never got really invested in it. Part of it might be that when I was getting into Star Trek, the series was already half-way over, and it's really difficult to get into the middle of an ongoing storyline. The other main reason might be - I REALLY don't care about war arcs. If I wanted to watch a war-based show, I'd watch something much better fitting than Star Trek.

    Ironically, I LOVE nuBSG to death. And that's essentially made by the creators of DS9 as a way of doing DS9 without all the Star Trek contstraints. And I really, really love that show! I love it! But all that good-guys-doing-bad-work, overly faithbased, and especially the hundreds-of-capital-ships-fighting-each-other-like-Napoleon-era-soldiers never, ever really worked on Star Trek for me.

    So yeah, I think DS9 has amazing characters - Garak, Quark, Kira are some of my all-time favourites. And I really liked the setting of the station - I'm especially fond of Quarks bar, and think this is a great place to tell more low-level SF-stories.

    I just never really got into either the Federation-Klingon war nor the Dominion war arcs, and sadly the show basically focused entirely on that in it's later seasons, instead of showing us more of the darker and low-profile corners of the Trek universe.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2019
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