Never seen TOS scenes, but would've been nice...

[Guest]

Re: Never seen TOS scenes...

Wow, those are some nice cgi schematics! As for my 'breadbox' comment, keep in mind that what you posted is NOT what is seen on TOS. You actually help support my view that Trek purists have rationized archaic-looking, completely outdated technology by assigning purpose where none existed. Nothing about the TOS shuttle would indicate or suggest the extremely complex and real-looking underworkings shown in the schematic. If you were to use TOS-era technology, I would imagine the innards of a shuttle looking like a transister radio, since that's pretty much how every other internal hardware looks in the show.

Our view about all of this differs in that I want to SEE this stuff on the screen, not assume that it exists beneath the cardboard-looking props...Oh, and here's another image. This was a tough one, because I was attempting to make the special effects NON-cgi looking, but rather the same as 1966 era...

U.S.S. DREADNAUGHT attacked

 

[LavianoTS386]

Re: Never seen TOS scenes...

Posted by Manticore:
Actually, I thought that the ships in T&T looked a LOT better when using decent lighting than the overlit fakey Constitution from TOS.

Also many TVs in that era were black & white, so unless the lit it the way they did, you would hardly see it.

 

[Warped9]

Re: Never seen TOS scenes...

^^ And here is where you have completely missed our point. FourMadMen. along with others, has been involved in a fantastic project that is attempting to rationalize the discrepencies between the fullsize interior mock-up set seen onscreen as well as the smaller sized exterior mock-up and small filming miniature that we've seen in TOS. They are in effect trying to bring to life a credible "working" TOS era shuttlecraft. They have taken great pains to make it viable while also trying to make it believeable and the general consensus is practically unanimous that they are doing a brilliant job. There is nothing in their work that contradicts what was established or inferred in the show itself and it serves to make what we saw onscreen all the more believeable.

No one said that TOS didn't make errors or cut a corner because of expediency or sometimes just got something wrong. Those things can be addressed while still remaining faithful to the overall conceptual thinking of the show.

 

[cbspock]

Re: Never seen TOS scenes...

I love the TOS "update" with the movie era displays. Good job!!! For the fans that are attacking them for "updating" TOS, it isn't like the changes made to Star Wars.

 

[LavianoTS386]

Re: Never seen refit?

Wait a minute, they weren't their yet!

 

[Warped9]

Re: Never seen refit?

This is revisionism...

This is contextual enhancment...

This is revisionism...

This is contextual enhancement...

 

[Guest]

Re: Never seen refit?

Either those images are broken or they are so large I can't view them... I'll have to take your word for it. Anyway, here's another 'Special Edition' image. The transporter...Updated Transporter

 

[Warped9]

Re: Never seen refit?

Posted by websbestcomics:
Either those images are broken or they are so large I can't view them... I'll have to take your word for it. Anyway, here's another 'Special Edition' image. The transporter...Updated Transporter

No, actually they're small images of no more than 100k or less. Anyway they're essentially reposts of images I've posted previously.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

Re: Never seen TOS scenes...

Posted by Warped9:
^^ The interior sets and costumes looked rather nice in T&T, but the exterior ship scenes looked like crap, er, cartoons. The contemporary F/X style in Trek just didn't suit the TOS ship design aesthetics.

Do you know God Thing, by any chance???

We MUST have been watching different episodes...T&T had TERRIFIC FX.

 

[LavianoTS386]

Re: Never seen TOS scenes...

Posted by darkwing_duck1:

Posted by Warped9:
^^ The interior sets and costumes looked rather nice in T&T, but the exterior ship scenes looked like crap, er, cartoons. The contemporary F/X style in Trek just didn't suit the TOS ship design aesthetics.

Do you know God Thing, by any chance???

We MUST have been watching different episodes...T&T had TERRIFIC FX.

Often people bitch that they used a CGI 1701 for T&T (Tits and Tits?...anyway...) when we know they used models.

The way they're photographed do give the issusion of a CGI render. TNG's effects fooled me too. (into thinking they were CGI)

 

[Warped9]

Re: Never seen TOS scenes...

Posted by darkwing_duck1:

Posted by Warped9:
^^ The interior sets and costumes looked rather nice in T&T, but the exterior ship scenes looked like crap, er, cartoons. The contemporary F/X style in Trek just didn't suit the TOS ship design aesthetics.

Do you know God Thing, by any chance???

We MUST have been watching different episodes...T&T had TERRIFIC FX.

No. Anyway from what I've read of his posts The God Thing and I seem to disagree primarily in regards to the TMP DE and some of 3rd season of TOS.

 

[Four Mad Men]

Re: Never seen TOS scenes...

Posted by websbestcomics:
Wow, those are some nice cgi schematics! As for my 'breadbox' comment, keep in mind that what you posted is NOT what is seen on TOS. You actually help support my view that Trek purists have rationized archaic-looking, completely outdated technology by assigning purpose where none existed. Nothing about the TOS shuttle would indicate or suggest the extremely complex and real-looking underworkings shown in the schematic. If you were to use TOS-era technology, I would imagine the innards of a shuttle looking like a transister radio, since that's pretty much how every other internal hardware looks in the show.

Our view about all of this differs in that I want to SEE this stuff on the screen, not assume that it exists beneath the cardboard-looking props...Oh, and here's another image. This was a tough one, because I was attempting to make the special effects NON-cgi looking, but rather the same as 1966 era...

U.S.S. DREADNAUGHT attacked

Thanks and let me just say a couple more things then I'll go back to enjoying the pictures -- and that includes the dreadnaught/Klingon you just posted.

While there are certain compromises that had to be made to integrate the interior and exterior there is nothing in thoe images I posted that was not seen on screen (with the exception of the nacelle framing). All the instruments are as designed and as shown. Although I will say that I do plan on an alternate version that has a few additions not seen that I hope will add to the realism of such a craft. Although I'm still hoping to keep with the original spirit of the design.

 

[Warped9]

Re: Never seen TOS scenes...

Posted by websbestcomics:
Wow, those are some nice cgi schematics! As for my 'breadbox' comment, keep in mind that what you posted is NOT what is seen on TOS. You actually help support my view that Trek purists have rationized archaic-looking, completely outdated technology by assigning purpose where none existed. Nothing about the TOS shuttle would indicate or suggest the extremely complex and real-looking underworkings shown in the schematic. If you were to use TOS-era technology, I would imagine the innards of a shuttle looking like a transister radio, since that's pretty much how every other internal hardware looks in the show.

Our view about all of this differs in that I want to SEE this stuff on the screen, not assume that it exists beneath the cardboard-looking props...Oh, and here's another image. This was a tough one, because I was attempting to make the special effects NON-cgi looking, but rather the same as 1966 era...

Actually, FourMadMen's approach does refute your approach because he hasn't added anything that is revisionist, but rather follows through on the original conceptual thinking.

 

[Warped9]

Re: Never seen TOS scenes...

What if after ST-TMP we'd gotten another television series depicting a new 5-year voyage instead of a collection of movies and TNG?

Encountering a Klingon squadron...

A new Romulan threat...

Like nothing ever before seen...

 

[cbspock]

Re: Never seen TOS scenes...

The original shot from TWOK always reminded me of one of the shots used in TV series....

 

[LavianoTS386]

Re: Never seen TOS scenes...

Posted by cbspock:

The original shot from TWOK always reminded me of one of the shots used in TV series....

Actually that shot is recycled from TMP>

 

[Warped9]

Re: Never seen TOS scenes...

Actually you're both right. The Klingon cruisers are from TMP while the E is from TWoK (from which I erased the Reliant). If you look closely under the saucer on the left side you can just make out some of the damage to the ship/

 

[LavianoTS386]

Re: Never seen TOS scenes...

Posted by Warped9:
Actually you're both right. The Klingon cruisers are from TMP while the E is from TWoK (from which I erased the Reliant). If you look closely under the saucer on the left side you can just make out some of the damage to the ship/

Oh wow, I thought that was from the launch sequence! You adjusted the contrast didn't you!

 

[Warped9]

Re: Never seen TOS scenes...

^^ Yes. I tend to try adding more visual texture and shadowing to my images trying for a look similar to early 1st season TOS. Also for the space scenes I try for more shadow and a little darker look for at least a step towards a little more credibility. It's impossible to be wholly credible because then unless the ship were very near a star than the only things visible would be the windows and running lights.

 

[Khan Noonian Singh]

Re: Never seen TOS scenes...

Posted by cbspock:
I love the TOS "update" with the movie era displays. Good job!!! For the fans that are attacking them for "updating" TOS, it isn't like the changes made to Star Wars.

Oh no, not at all- this is just fans having fun. However, were there to be a real Trek Special Edition done in the manner of websbest's work, it'd be a far more sweeping change than the Star Wars Special Editions. I don't like the SWSEs, but they just insert a few clumsy, random new effects here and there. A complete and total overhaul of Trek's visual style would be *far* more revisionist.