Never seen TOS scenes, but would've been nice...
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Re: Never seen TOS scenes...
That's the attitude! I can almost see the tears welling up in your eyes! It's too bad you can't be mature enough to enjoy someone elses work, even if it clashes with your view of what Trek should look like. Paramount isn't going to hire websbest to work on a "special edition" and they certainly aren't going to hire you. So I don't think anyone has to worry about either one of you messing up Star Trek
Here we have an obviously gifted artist posting very interesting images for all of us to look at, and you're going to pout and cry because it doesn't fit the perfect image of Star Trek that you have created in your mind.
While I agree with some of the points you make, I still look forward to seeing every image websbest posts, because they look great. Too bad you aren't as open minded. Your loss.
That's the attitude! I can almost see the tears welling up in your eyes! It's too bad you can't be mature enough to enjoy someone elses work, even if it clashes with your view of what Trek should look like. Paramount isn't going to hire websbest to work on a "special edition" and they certainly aren't going to hire you. So I don't think anyone has to worry about either one of you messing up Star Trek
Here we have an obviously gifted artist posting very interesting images for all of us to look at, and you're going to pout and cry because it doesn't fit the perfect image of Star Trek that you have created in your mind.
While I agree with some of the points you make, I still look forward to seeing every image websbest posts, because they look great. Too bad you aren't as open minded. Your loss.
Re: Never seen TOS scenes...
^^ Listen, Pal, do you know what the hell I'm even talking about? Likely not. I'm not saying that he shouldn't post his images any way he likes. I'm saying that it has been explained repeatedly what is meant by "enhancement" and he still doesn't grasp the meaning. He keeps going on about how we just want to keep the cardboard photos for screens and such--no one suggested any such thing. He has mentioned that he doesn't see the point of just cleaning up the images and adding visual texture and density by trying to follow through on the original conceptual thinking. Effectively he's saying it isn't worth doing unless you "improve" the images by trying to make them look more in line with currnt Trek. I may get warned here, but before you butt in and spout off on something know what is going on first.
Oh, since it has been mentioned that my renders evidently aren't going far enough I've decided to get into the spirit of things and address a shortcoming in "Arena." Obviously the original Gorn design is not credibly menacing any longer and cannot really rationalize an experienced officer like Lt. Uhura cringing and recoiling in revulsion. And so I've updated the Gorn images improving them so that they are not more genuinely menacing and thus justifying Uhura's revulsion...
Candidly I find the last image the most frightening...
^^ Listen, Pal, do you know what the hell I'm even talking about? Likely not. I'm not saying that he shouldn't post his images any way he likes. I'm saying that it has been explained repeatedly what is meant by "enhancement" and he still doesn't grasp the meaning. He keeps going on about how we just want to keep the cardboard photos for screens and such--no one suggested any such thing. He has mentioned that he doesn't see the point of just cleaning up the images and adding visual texture and density by trying to follow through on the original conceptual thinking. Effectively he's saying it isn't worth doing unless you "improve" the images by trying to make them look more in line with currnt Trek. I may get warned here, but before you butt in and spout off on something know what is going on first.
Oh, since it has been mentioned that my renders evidently aren't going far enough I've decided to get into the spirit of things and address a shortcoming in "Arena." Obviously the original Gorn design is not credibly menacing any longer and cannot really rationalize an experienced officer like Lt. Uhura cringing and recoiling in revulsion. And so I've updated the Gorn images improving them so that they are not more genuinely menacing and thus justifying Uhura's revulsion...
Candidly I find the last image the most frightening...
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Re: Never seen TOS scenes...
Just to set the record straight, the only thing I was disputing is that anyone who decides to monkey around with TOS images in photoshop (or any other software) in an attempt to improve upon the original image is essentially making an 'enhancement' or 'revision'. It seems silly to argue over the interpretation of these terms. You are right, my opinion about a TOS 'special edition' should not be a regurgitation of the same antiquated technology, but rather a modernization that is comparable in realism to 21st century science fiction motifs, otherwise it would be virtually unnoticed by new and old fans alike. That's not to say it should lose sight of TOS style and the basic design philosophy. And in the end, who really cares? We are all just fans having a little fun.
You're right, that's actually pretty close to my view about it. You are taking this far too personally...
Just to set the record straight, the only thing I was disputing is that anyone who decides to monkey around with TOS images in photoshop (or any other software) in an attempt to improve upon the original image is essentially making an 'enhancement' or 'revision'. It seems silly to argue over the interpretation of these terms. You are right, my opinion about a TOS 'special edition' should not be a regurgitation of the same antiquated technology, but rather a modernization that is comparable in realism to 21st century science fiction motifs, otherwise it would be virtually unnoticed by new and old fans alike. That's not to say it should lose sight of TOS style and the basic design philosophy. And in the end, who really cares? We are all just fans having a little fun.
You're right, that's actually pretty close to my view about it. You are taking this far too personally...
Re: Never seen TOS scenes...
While I find this old and familiar debate to be rather interesting, it is dangerously close to completely sidetracking the topic of this thread. Open a separate thread on the matter if you must, but agree to disagree in here and move on.
While I find this old and familiar debate to be rather interesting, it is dangerously close to completely sidetracking the topic of this thread. Open a separate thread on the matter if you must, but agree to disagree in here and move on.
Re: Never seen TOS scenes...
And how am I doing so? And why do I get the sense that I'm being painted a villiain here and an "immature" one at that?
I was wholly prepared to just let this whole thing slide just as I had indicated earlier, but seems it's been decided that it should be raised again. And now I'm royally pissed. I posted an opposing viewpoint regarding something someone else posts in my thread. It seems the individual cannot grasp what I'm trying to explain despite repeated attempts to clarify. My sense is that despite his agreement that I do understand his viewpoint he still doesn't grasp what I've been trying to say. And now someone else butts in uninformed and claims I'm being immature about it?
And I'm taking it personally? Well at the risk of being offensive then I damn well take it personally when it comes to trying to discuss something with some individuals who cannot even grasp the sky is blue. Or to put it far more bluntly and not nearly so politically correct and sensitive so as to be aboslutely certain that there is no misunderstanding, there comes a point when it is a complete waste of breath debating with a viewpoint that is inescapably wrong. It's no longer a matter of subjective taste, but has wandered into the area of being right and wrong.
But this is beside the main point of my displeasure that many apparently have not understood. I'm not upset over another approach to photomanipulating TOS images even if I don't agree with it, and I'm not really upset with such images being posted in my thread. But I am thoroughly exasperated that my repeated attempts to clarify the thinking behind my and others' approach fails to be comprehended by some individuals. The light just isn't going on in there somehow.
Furthermore I make it a point not to try hijacking someone else's thread. I wonder how CRA would feel if I started loading his thread with my plans of how the TOS 1701 is laid out and telling him that his approach is a complete waste of time. I may not wholly agree with what CRA is doing, but I respect his work and his own particular approach.
I'm of the old school where it was understood that not alll opinions are immediately valid, where informed and reasoned opinions weigh more than, "But it's cool because I want to, Man. I'm entitled."
I don't see how I'm being the immature one here and how I'm taking it too personally. But then I don't buy into the concept of entitlement either.
And how am I doing so? And why do I get the sense that I'm being painted a villiain here and an "immature" one at that?
I was wholly prepared to just let this whole thing slide just as I had indicated earlier, but seems it's been decided that it should be raised again. And now I'm royally pissed. I posted an opposing viewpoint regarding something someone else posts in my thread. It seems the individual cannot grasp what I'm trying to explain despite repeated attempts to clarify. My sense is that despite his agreement that I do understand his viewpoint he still doesn't grasp what I've been trying to say. And now someone else butts in uninformed and claims I'm being immature about it?
And I'm taking it personally? Well at the risk of being offensive then I damn well take it personally when it comes to trying to discuss something with some individuals who cannot even grasp the sky is blue. Or to put it far more bluntly and not nearly so politically correct and sensitive so as to be aboslutely certain that there is no misunderstanding, there comes a point when it is a complete waste of breath debating with a viewpoint that is inescapably wrong. It's no longer a matter of subjective taste, but has wandered into the area of being right and wrong.
But this is beside the main point of my displeasure that many apparently have not understood. I'm not upset over another approach to photomanipulating TOS images even if I don't agree with it, and I'm not really upset with such images being posted in my thread. But I am thoroughly exasperated that my repeated attempts to clarify the thinking behind my and others' approach fails to be comprehended by some individuals. The light just isn't going on in there somehow.
Furthermore I make it a point not to try hijacking someone else's thread. I wonder how CRA would feel if I started loading his thread with my plans of how the TOS 1701 is laid out and telling him that his approach is a complete waste of time. I may not wholly agree with what CRA is doing, but I respect his work and his own particular approach.
I'm of the old school where it was understood that not alll opinions are immediately valid, where informed and reasoned opinions weigh more than, "But it's cool because I want to, Man. I'm entitled."
I don't see how I'm being the immature one here and how I'm taking it too personally. But then I don't buy into the concept of entitlement either.
Re: Never seen TOS scenes...
The original post gives this mission statement:
I don't see how any images, "revisionist" or otherwise, posted in this thread have violated that mission statement.
What they seem to have violated, is your personal definition of what "sure as hell would have been nice to" see. That definition was not stated in the original note, by the way.
Nobody is deconstructing the series. They are photomanipulating screenshots from the series to depict what they "sure as hell would have" liked to see, exactly what you invited them to do.
This is the TREK ART forum. PHOTOMANIPULATED ARTWORK is being presented. This is not the FUTURE OF TREK or the TOS REBOOT forum. I fail to see why you seem to have such a bug up your ass about other people showing their imaginings in a thread where you invited them to do so.
I haven't even posted any images, so I have no personal stake in the debate, but this whole discussion is making me mad just reading it. All I have done in ths thread is just try to enjoy others' creativity and artistic ability. But that enjoyment has been severely curtailed by your argumentative nature extending this debate from page to page.
It's almost as if you want the thread to contain only your images and praise thereof. If that's the case, then you should have said so.
The original post gives this mission statement:
I don't see how any images, "revisionist" or otherwise, posted in this thread have violated that mission statement.
What they seem to have violated, is your personal definition of what "sure as hell would have been nice to" see. That definition was not stated in the original note, by the way.
Nobody is deconstructing the series. They are photomanipulating screenshots from the series to depict what they "sure as hell would have" liked to see, exactly what you invited them to do.
This is the TREK ART forum. PHOTOMANIPULATED ARTWORK is being presented. This is not the FUTURE OF TREK or the TOS REBOOT forum. I fail to see why you seem to have such a bug up your ass about other people showing their imaginings in a thread where you invited them to do so.
I haven't even posted any images, so I have no personal stake in the debate, but this whole discussion is making me mad just reading it. All I have done in ths thread is just try to enjoy others' creativity and artistic ability. But that enjoyment has been severely curtailed by your argumentative nature extending this debate from page to page.
It's almost as if you want the thread to contain only your images and praise thereof. If that's the case, then you should have said so.
Re: Never seen TOS scenes...
Just an idea.
Im not too keen on the rails flashing, however, what if you were to do a pre-curosr to latter Treks, where strips of light flsh at eye level, take the red highlights on the edge of the surrounding consoles and see what they look like flashing.Posted by reno floyd:
I always felt that if the handrails were to be bright red they had to be red for a reason. What if they were actually supposed to flash during red alerts?
Just an idea.
Now, this is a good idea. Although, it would make sense if it were part of the last Phase II season, around 1977-ish. Although, tone down the colours a little, theyre a little too bright.Posted by reno floyd:
What if the uniforms had been slightly different in the films?
What if Nick Meyer went for French instead of British influences for example:
Or what if the old department colours were kept?
Re: Never seen TOS scenes...
I don't know if I'd like the edge of the 'desk' under my arms to be flashing in my lap while I'm working, especially in a crisis situation. That seems very distracting. Perhaps if the alert strips were higher, say along the seam between the black display consoles and the greyish overhead screen area?
I don't know if I'd like the edge of the 'desk' under my arms to be flashing in my lap while I'm working, especially in a crisis situation. That seems very distracting. Perhaps if the alert strips were higher, say along the seam between the black display consoles and the greyish overhead screen area?
Re: Never seen TOS scenes...
Okay, this is getting ridiculous.
Warped9, you are taking this whole thing too personally. You've made your point very clearly and even though you don't seem to realize it, everyone does get it, even websbestcomics. What you don't seem to get is that a lack of understanding or an inability to grasp the "rightness" of your position is not the only explanation for why some people don't agree with you.
For the record, I come down more on your side of the argument than websbestcomics', but I can also understand his desire to "bring TOS up-to-date" so to speak. I'm not saying it should be done in any official capacity, as a Paramount sponsored "special edition" for example, but I'm not going to condemn websbestcomics for refusing to acknowledge that option as morally "wrong" the way you seem to.
I really don't understand what it is you want. Do you want websbestcomics to flat-out stop posting images of his more revisionist vision of TOS? Do you want him to break down and admit that you were right and he was wrong? What is it exactly that's going to make you happy here?
Okay, this is getting ridiculous.
Warped9, you are taking this whole thing too personally. You've made your point very clearly and even though you don't seem to realize it, everyone does get it, even websbestcomics. What you don't seem to get is that a lack of understanding or an inability to grasp the "rightness" of your position is not the only explanation for why some people don't agree with you.
For the record, I come down more on your side of the argument than websbestcomics', but I can also understand his desire to "bring TOS up-to-date" so to speak. I'm not saying it should be done in any official capacity, as a Paramount sponsored "special edition" for example, but I'm not going to condemn websbestcomics for refusing to acknowledge that option as morally "wrong" the way you seem to.
I really don't understand what it is you want. Do you want websbestcomics to flat-out stop posting images of his more revisionist vision of TOS? Do you want him to break down and admit that you were right and he was wrong? What is it exactly that's going to make you happy here?
Re: Never seen TOS scenes...
Brother! And this is exactly my point that no one seems to comprehend.
I'M NOT SAYING THAT NO ONE ELSE SHOULD POST OTHER IMAGES HERE. INDEED OTHERS ALREADY HAVE BEFORE THIS WHOLE THING STARTED. I'VE BEEN SAYING THAT THE APPROACH USED BY ME AND OTHERS HAS BEEN TOTALLY MISREPRESENTED BECAUSE THEY CANNOT GRASP WHAT WE'VE BEEN REPEATED TRYING TO EXPLAIN.
I'll try one more goddamned time with one small example. TOS couldn't afford to make all their viewscreens work like the Bridge's main viewscreen. They could have if they'd had the time and money, but they didn't. And so as a shortcut they may have used enlarged photographs as a stand-in for smaller viewscreens such as those over the bridge stations. Our approach would be to manipulate the image in such a way as to put more dynamic images where the original producers could not afford to do. This approach is following through with the producers' original conceptual thinking. They had used photos to suggest a viewscreen and the viewer's imagination then accepts that understanding that it is really supposed to be an actual dynamic screen like the Bridge's main viewscreen. But websbestcomics seems to think that what we really want is just to replace one photo with another. WRONG. In a proper enhancement we would be making the image a dynamic interactive one rather than just another photo, but one that is in context with what is happening in the story and builds on the original thinking behind the scene and the set's design. If done correctly it would be a seamless enhancement that would look as if it had been done in such a dynamic way all along. It would look authentic.
Another example: FourMadMen is using current cgi capability to create a fully fleshed out version of the TOS shuttlecraft. He is using modern tools to create something that couldn't exist before without the time and budget of a major motion picture project back in the '60s, something obviously TOS didn't have. However, FMM is remaining faithful to what was seen onscreen. His work will give us a fully realized and believeable three dimensional shuttlecraft that looks pretty well exactly like what was seen on the show and much like what was always intended to be suggested by Matt Jeffries and the original production people. But to websbestcomics FMM's work isn't really authentic and faithful because he dares to try depicting a believeable structural frame under the skin of his 3D model as opposed to showing "authentic" plywood.
Meanwhile websbestcomics can only see that "improving" TOS can only work if you trash it with all sorts of revisionist winkies that wholly disrespect what the original designers and producers were attempting to do. I know he doesn't see it that way and I accept that, but he (and others) cannot seem to understanding, to truly comprehend, my and FourMadMen's approach and our thinking behind it.
It is this distinct inability of some to grasp such a damned simple idea that is pissing me off.
Brother! And this is exactly my point that no one seems to comprehend.
I'M NOT SAYING THAT NO ONE ELSE SHOULD POST OTHER IMAGES HERE. INDEED OTHERS ALREADY HAVE BEFORE THIS WHOLE THING STARTED. I'VE BEEN SAYING THAT THE APPROACH USED BY ME AND OTHERS HAS BEEN TOTALLY MISREPRESENTED BECAUSE THEY CANNOT GRASP WHAT WE'VE BEEN REPEATED TRYING TO EXPLAIN.
I'll try one more goddamned time with one small example. TOS couldn't afford to make all their viewscreens work like the Bridge's main viewscreen. They could have if they'd had the time and money, but they didn't. And so as a shortcut they may have used enlarged photographs as a stand-in for smaller viewscreens such as those over the bridge stations. Our approach would be to manipulate the image in such a way as to put more dynamic images where the original producers could not afford to do. This approach is following through with the producers' original conceptual thinking. They had used photos to suggest a viewscreen and the viewer's imagination then accepts that understanding that it is really supposed to be an actual dynamic screen like the Bridge's main viewscreen. But websbestcomics seems to think that what we really want is just to replace one photo with another. WRONG. In a proper enhancement we would be making the image a dynamic interactive one rather than just another photo, but one that is in context with what is happening in the story and builds on the original thinking behind the scene and the set's design. If done correctly it would be a seamless enhancement that would look as if it had been done in such a dynamic way all along. It would look authentic.
Another example: FourMadMen is using current cgi capability to create a fully fleshed out version of the TOS shuttlecraft. He is using modern tools to create something that couldn't exist before without the time and budget of a major motion picture project back in the '60s, something obviously TOS didn't have. However, FMM is remaining faithful to what was seen onscreen. His work will give us a fully realized and believeable three dimensional shuttlecraft that looks pretty well exactly like what was seen on the show and much like what was always intended to be suggested by Matt Jeffries and the original production people. But to websbestcomics FMM's work isn't really authentic and faithful because he dares to try depicting a believeable structural frame under the skin of his 3D model as opposed to showing "authentic" plywood.
Meanwhile websbestcomics can only see that "improving" TOS can only work if you trash it with all sorts of revisionist winkies that wholly disrespect what the original designers and producers were attempting to do. I know he doesn't see it that way and I accept that, but he (and others) cannot seem to understanding, to truly comprehend, my and FourMadMen's approach and our thinking behind it.
It is this distinct inability of some to grasp such a damned simple idea that is pissing me off.
Re: Never seen TOS scenes...
I come here for the beer and th bitches...
So lets see some more Eyecandy
I come here for the beer and th bitches...
So lets see some more Eyecandy
Re: Never seen TOS scenes...
And you, Karidian, are not helping. This kind of sarcastic taunting is uncalled for and I will issue you a warning for it if you do it again. If you have something to say that will help resolve the argument instead of making it worse then you're welcome to contribute. Otherwise, don't.
And you, Karidian, are not helping. This kind of sarcastic taunting is uncalled for and I will issue you a warning for it if you do it again. If you have something to say that will help resolve the argument instead of making it worse then you're welcome to contribute. Otherwise, don't.
Re: Never seen TOS scenes...
No. I never said he should stop posting images. I never said he should adopt the "rightness" of my approach. I'm pissed because whenever I've explained our approach he has misrepresented it in such a way that gives the impression that he doesn't understand it.
To hell with it. I'm done talking.
No. I never said he should stop posting images. I never said he should adopt the "rightness" of my approach. I'm pissed because whenever I've explained our approach he has misrepresented it in such a way that gives the impression that he doesn't understand it.
To hell with it. I'm done talking.
Re: Never seen TOS scenes...
Well, it didnt seem to bother the officers at eye level, which to me is even worse than in your lap.
Yeah, give the middle divide a go, see what happens. I dont have gif software, so i cant give it a go.
Well, it didnt seem to bother the officers at eye level, which to me is even worse than in your lap.
Yeah, give the middle divide a go, see what happens. I dont have gif software, so i cant give it a go.
Re: Never seen TOS scenes...
You know I'd liek to see a tribble wearing a Star Fleet uniforem from TMP, with the open chest. Just for the hell of it.
You know I'd liek to see a tribble wearing a Star Fleet uniforem from TMP, with the open chest. Just for the hell of it.
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Re: Never seen TOS scenes...
Please don't. Everyone grasps what you're saying. What YOU don't seem to grasp is that some people disagree with you, to some degree. You seem to think that the only reason people disagree with you is that they don't understand. Wrong.
No, it's his unwillingness to agree with you that's making you mad. Everyone grasps what you are talking about, I think everyone grasps where websbestcomics is coming from. So that's NOT the issue. In fact, most people here seem to lean toward your concepts than websbestcoms'. So what's the problem?
Please don't. Everyone grasps what you're saying. What YOU don't seem to grasp is that some people disagree with you, to some degree. You seem to think that the only reason people disagree with you is that they don't understand. Wrong.
No, it's his unwillingness to agree with you that's making you mad. Everyone grasps what you are talking about, I think everyone grasps where websbestcomics is coming from. So that's NOT the issue. In fact, most people here seem to lean toward your concepts than websbestcoms'. So what's the problem?
Re: Never seen TOS scenes...
Okay, let me throw something out here...
I work in the lighting division of a mechanical and electrical engineering firm. We constantly have to issue two types of information on projects that we have previously designed: clarifications and revisions. A clarification is where you provide a more detailed explanation of what you were trying to accomplish, and a revision is where you actually change the parameters of the design.
Where TOS is concerned, I personally would be in favor of what might be called a "clarification." I wouldn't mind seeing them redo the special effects in a way that would clean up the graininess, matte lines, compositing problems, camera jitters and so forth. I don't think anyone would argue that the original producers would have wanted any of those things if they could possibly avoid them.
Beyond that, you're in shaky territory. I would argue that if you actually change anything that was originally seen on-screen, that would be a "revision." Even something as simple as making the bridge displays more dynamic is arguably revisionist. Updating console displays and set designs to movie-era aesthetics definitely is.
My point is that "enhancement" and "revisionism" as they have been discussed in this thread are really just the minimalist and maximist expressions of the same desire to go back and change things about TOS.
I don't think Warped9's position on this subject has been misunderstood but I do think it has been somewhat distorted, moving it far closer to the minimalist end of the scale than it actually is. Anyone who has looked at the images he's posted has to admit that he is clearly willing to make drastic changes to the visual character of TOS, as long as they fit within the parameters of what the show's original producers would have done given sufficient time, money and resources. What he is not willing to do is change things just for the sake of changing them, or retcon things to make them fit with what came later, especially when those things obviously don't fit.
Other people like websbestcomics are willing and even eager to make those kinds of changes. They're not concerned by the objections of purists and don't believe that simply experimenting with such changes is an overt act of disrespect to the show's creators. I am inclined to agree. Not that I want to see it taken to the extent of a full-fledged, Paramount sponsored "special edition," but a few people tinkering around in Photoshop is certainly nothing to get all exercised about.
I really don't want to curtail this discussion because I think it's one worth having, but I'm not going to allow it to degenerate further into personal recriminations and general acrimony. Discuss the issue on its own merits or don't discuss it at all. No more debate about certain people's capacity to "grasp" or "understand" others' arguments and no more distortion of other people's attitudes and positions. Period. If I see any more of it, I'm going to start issuing official warnings for flaming and/or trolling, and if that isn't enough to bring it to a halt, I will close the thread.
I really don't want to do that. Don't make me.
Okay, let me throw something out here...
I work in the lighting division of a mechanical and electrical engineering firm. We constantly have to issue two types of information on projects that we have previously designed: clarifications and revisions. A clarification is where you provide a more detailed explanation of what you were trying to accomplish, and a revision is where you actually change the parameters of the design.
Where TOS is concerned, I personally would be in favor of what might be called a "clarification." I wouldn't mind seeing them redo the special effects in a way that would clean up the graininess, matte lines, compositing problems, camera jitters and so forth. I don't think anyone would argue that the original producers would have wanted any of those things if they could possibly avoid them.
Beyond that, you're in shaky territory. I would argue that if you actually change anything that was originally seen on-screen, that would be a "revision." Even something as simple as making the bridge displays more dynamic is arguably revisionist. Updating console displays and set designs to movie-era aesthetics definitely is.
My point is that "enhancement" and "revisionism" as they have been discussed in this thread are really just the minimalist and maximist expressions of the same desire to go back and change things about TOS.
I don't think Warped9's position on this subject has been misunderstood but I do think it has been somewhat distorted, moving it far closer to the minimalist end of the scale than it actually is. Anyone who has looked at the images he's posted has to admit that he is clearly willing to make drastic changes to the visual character of TOS, as long as they fit within the parameters of what the show's original producers would have done given sufficient time, money and resources. What he is not willing to do is change things just for the sake of changing them, or retcon things to make them fit with what came later, especially when those things obviously don't fit.
Other people like websbestcomics are willing and even eager to make those kinds of changes. They're not concerned by the objections of purists and don't believe that simply experimenting with such changes is an overt act of disrespect to the show's creators. I am inclined to agree. Not that I want to see it taken to the extent of a full-fledged, Paramount sponsored "special edition," but a few people tinkering around in Photoshop is certainly nothing to get all exercised about.
I really don't want to curtail this discussion because I think it's one worth having, but I'm not going to allow it to degenerate further into personal recriminations and general acrimony. Discuss the issue on its own merits or don't discuss it at all. No more debate about certain people's capacity to "grasp" or "understand" others' arguments and no more distortion of other people's attitudes and positions. Period. If I see any more of it, I'm going to start issuing official warnings for flaming and/or trolling, and if that isn't enough to bring it to a halt, I will close the thread.
I really don't want to do that. Don't make me.
Re: Never seen TOS scenes...
Oh, Thank You. Thank you so very much for illuminating what is really going on in my own mind.
Do you have anything else constructive to contribute? If not then I was under the impression that this was starting to blow over...until you'd chosen to ressurrect it again.
Oh, Thank You. Thank you so very much for illuminating what is really going on in my own mind.
Do you have anything else constructive to contribute? If not then I was under the impression that this was starting to blow over...until you'd chosen to ressurrect it again.
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