Nemesis with a diffrent villan?

[PhoenixIreland]

The only thing that bothered me about this movie was a human clone taking control of the Romulus empire and I thought the whole "im a mirror of you as well" shite was cringe worthy.

Would it have been better if a Reman was shinzon? It definitely would have been more plausible.

..or what about Sela?

anyone but a Picard clone...

 

[Xerxes1979]

Shinzon would have worked if he wasn't such an idiot. Basically he just wasted time while a terminal disease that would kill him in days ate away at him.

Nemesis could have been an updated but different enough version of ST VI but they blew it. B4, Remans and other non-sense destroyed a film that could have worked well as a Romulan orientated film.

 

[cardinal biggles]

Please, God, not Sela. Denise Crosby can't act her way out of a wet paper bag. The character — as written in her few appearances, and as played by the actress — is about as cunning and menacing as a stoned baboon.

 

[Myasishchev]

Shinzon would have worked if he wasn't such an idiot. Basically he just wasted time while a terminal disease that would kill him in days ate away at him.

Nemesis could have been an updated but different enough version of ST VI but they blew it. B4, Remans and other non-sense destroyed a film that could have worked well as a Romulan orientated film.

I never understood why he didn't just ask for a transfusion. Picard's a pretty cool guy, and it's probably some kind of Starfleet bylaw that you have to give transfusions to your clone.

Unless, under more recent bylaws, you kill them during gestation with impunity (the Riker Amendment).

 

[Warp Coil]

The concept of a clone isn't necessarily bad. It's how the idea is executed that makes all the difference. My problems with Shinzon have to do with his backstory and motivations. The Romulans stole Picard's DNA to create a clone of him years before he ever took Command of the Enterprise - why? I could see if they had done it five or ten years prior to NEM, but the timeline doesn't add up for me. Also, the on-screen explanation is that the Romulans had a change in leadership/power and the entire plot was scrapped. So why keep the clone around? Why allow such blatant evidence to exist? The Romulans are pretty cold and calculated - they'd have no ethical issues about killing the human clone once they decided they would never use it. I also don't buy for one second that this neglected human clone could possibly rise up to stage a coup against the Romulans and take command of the Scimitar. As soon as Shinzon gained any sort of power or support, the Romulans would have had him killed. I've never understood why Shinzon would need to kill Picard to cure his illness (in the 24th century, a simple transfusion wouldn't work? Or using a small sample of Picard's blood to create more?). Lastly, I can't fathom why Shinzon wanted to use his evil villian superweapon to destroy Earth. The guy was created by Romulans, mistreated by Romulans, and cared for by Remans. Earth, humanity and the Federation were never a part of his life. So why all the angst?

A very poorly-conceived character.

 

[Jaespol]

Sela.

 

[Lieut. Arex]

Tomalak.

Romulan, personal enemy of Picard, played by a solid actor. What's not to like?

 

[bullethead]

Tomalok would've been a better choice for a replacement villain than Sela, but I'm not sure what his motivation would be... maybe finding out about Sisko's involvement in the death of that one dude that lead to the Romulans entering the war?

 

[c0rnedfr0g]

Shinzon would have worked if he wasn't such an idiot. Basically he just wasted time while a terminal disease that would kill him in days ate away at him.

Nemesis could have been an updated but different enough version of ST VI but they blew it. B4, Remans and other non-sense destroyed a film that could have worked well as a Romulan orientated film.

I never understood why he didn't just ask for a transfusion. Picard's a pretty cool guy, and it's probably some kind of Starfleet bylaw that you have to give transfusions to your clone.

Unless, under more recent bylaws, you kill them during gestation with impunity (the Riker Amendment).

It could have been like in the TOS episode "Journey to Babel," a nice nod to old continuity.

 

[Too Much Fun]

I've said it before and I'll (probably) say it again...shoulda been Q.

 

[Myasishchev]

^Now that's a trolley I can get on unreservedly. Q needed a theatrical appearance, and a TNG sendoff wouldn't be right without him.

 

[c0rnedfr0g]

I dunno, VOY kinda ruined Q (as they did with just about every other race... ::BORG:: excuse me)

 

[Myasishchev]

That's why any prospective Q film would've studiously ignored the Voyager appearances.

 

[CaptainStoner]

Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man vs. Enterprise-E

set phasers to toast

 

[Xerxes1979]

Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man vs. Enterprise-E

set phasers to toast

We used to roast Stay Puft marshmallows....by the fire at Camp Waconda.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Unless, under more recent bylaws, you kill them during gestation with impunity (the Riker Amendment).

 

[Newspaper Taxi]

The "Shinzon" figure could have been an original character. I think I would have liked it best if the villain was a radical Romulan faction leader who had a partnership with a Reman leader. You could have some ambiguity by having it on one hand being an advancement/end to Reman silvery, but at the same time the villains are basically working towards a "Let's treat all of the people who treated us like shit...like shit!" mentality besides all of the vacuum of power elements.

Data could still die, if need be. If they wanted to have the doubleness be a part of the movie maybe they could have had the villain be a Romulan version of Picard -- down to some weird similarities. ("...You like Earl Grey Tea as well?" "Yes. I grew fond of it on an espionage mission to Earth.") Maybe, maybe, if you wanted to have some double-ness with Data you could have a Reman to mirror him: One that's slightly robotic and is a grunt to the main villains but has a desire to be something more.

I wouldn't want Sela. I enjoyed Sela when I was young but now I just find her too ridiculous. She's the half-daughter of an alternate-universe Tasha Yar who traveled backwards into time. Right there we have alternate universe, time travel, and evil double clichés all roiled into one.

 

[c0rnedfr0g]

That's why any prospective Q film would've studiously ignored the Voyager appearances.

You can't just throw out what you don't like. If it was live-action and on television/silver screen, it's all canon, even "Spock's Brain" and "Threshold."

 

[RyuRoots]

That's why any prospective Q film would've studiously ignored the Voyager appearances.

You can't just throw out what you don't like. If it was live-action and on television/silver screen, it's all canon, even "Spock's Brain" and "Threshold."

There's the beauty of what I call "personal canon". As long as there's nothing to contradict it, you can feel free to "delete" whatever you please. For example: in my mind, the events of "Descent" never happen. And I find that I suffer no ill effects in thinking this way. >_>

As for the topic at hand, I believe Sela would've made a better villain for this movie. Looking back, I don't like how she just kinda disappeared after "Unification". And just recently I watched some of the special features for Nemesis, and they said they made Shinzon who he was so he'd have a connection to Picard. Sela already had an antagonistic connection, and I think it'd be a better goodbye for the character than to be Vulcan nerve pinch'd and forgotten about.

 

[Saga]

i would have rather had a solid Romulan story with Sela and Spock with no Picard clone and no B4. or a Q movie.