Neelix....I wish you a slow and painful death

[The Dominion]

Guinan could be considered Proto-Quark, Neelix is Post-Quark.

 

[exodus]

Quark and Neelix actually have a lot of similarities

-They're both involved in food service
-they're both supposed to be very resourceful with a lot of connections, some shady
-they're both "non-warrior"(not just that they're civilians but their characters just aren't fighter-types) among crews of mostly warriors
-they're both outgoing people persons
-and yes, they're both alien civilians


that's actually a lot of similarities, I think you're deliberately avoiding how close the two characters are, it's just that Quark was pulled off a lot better

Guinan shares all those similarities too.

So if anything, Quark & Neelix are Guinian type characters.

actually, I'd agree, except for the part about Guinan being a non-warrior (look at "Q Who," "night terrors," , etc.) Hey, Picard even wanted her help to fight Soran in "Generations."

I never considered he meant physically.
Guinian seems more an expert in psyching her adversaries out.
As far as warrior, we've never seen her ACTUALLY fight.
Harry Kim did some "stunt" scenes and he'd still get his butt beat.
So i'm not sure she's a warrior or just psyching us out again.

 

[Tidus79001]

And oh, Neelix is almost as useless as Riker.

I have no problem with Neelix. I found him to be the perfect counter to Tuvok. The relationship between Neelix & Tuvok was classic with how he would always end up getting on Tuvoks nerves. Nexlix is to Tuvok what McCoy was to Spock.

No one is more useless than Deanna Troi. Guinan was another pointless character that was created just to give Whoopi Goldberg a place on TNG. Reginald Barclay was really annyoing, and I can't take him seriously (I can't stand the whole idiot genius thing).

I also can't stand any of the cast of Deep Space Nine. Voyager should have made a special stop in the Gamma Quadrant once they return home & obliterated Deep Space Nine with one Transphasic torpedo.

 

[Amaris]

I like Neelix. Like Kes, too. So far, they share some of my favorite moments in VOY (which aren't as many as I'd hoped when I first set out to watch it all the way through). I think Neelix and Kes are adorable together.

 

[TrekFan70]

Neelix had his good points and his bad. At times he was very insightful to a situation and seemed to be aware of other characters emotions, saying just the right thing to help push through whatever might be going on.

My biggest issue with him was his clothing. The colors killed my eyes back when the show was in the air, and I find I still have the same cringe-response now as I watch the series again on DVD.

I can't say that I disliked him. I didn't really like him either though. Kind of just indifferent to him.

 

[Fedor]

Funny... I read this is "NETFLIX I wish you a slow and painful death."

That is what I saw as well. Damn, Netflix.

Neelix wasn't that bad. He had a few good roles. He is nowhere the level of a Jar Jar Binks. Jar Jar is one of the worst characters of all time.

 

[DS9 Gal AZ]

I alwys felt like Neelix was a watered-down Quark. He wasn't as devious as Quark (though he had his moments), and he wasn't as smart either. I could have appreciated him as the typical "genial alien outsider" if he hadn't been stupid and petty so much of time. His jealousy/possessive with Kes and his basic ineptitude as a crew member were a huge turn-off.

I want to emphasize, however, that the problem was not in the acting, but in the writing. Ethan Phillips was a trooper and did the best he could to make an irritating character likeable. It's to his credit that I don't completely hate Neelix and have even enjoyed the character on occassion. I kind of feel sorry for Phillips the same way I feel sorry for Wil Wheaton, because they both had the bad luck of playing characters many fans hated. And it's not really their fault, it's just the way the characters were written.

The one trek character that I absolutely loathe, however, is the hologram Vic Fontaine from Deep Space Nine. If I wanted to hear a damn lounge act, I'd go see one! And that stupid wanna-be '60s rat-pack vibe of his ... blech. From the moment he appeared on screen, they were basically shoving him down our thoats at the bestest hologram ever! Nope, sorry, that title goes to Voyager's doctor.

What's worse, they started having more scenes in Vic's dumb holo-bar than they did in Quark's real bar. Heck, they even had part of the series finale in there! WTF! And they had him singing entire songs. Again, if I wanted to listen to that kind of music, I'd go get a CD, watch someone perform, whatever. I'm not saying the guy didn't have a good voice, but it just always left me feeling like the writer's couldn't be arsed to write another actual scene, so they just threw another Vic song in.

I know many Neelix-haters cheered when Tuvok strangled holo-Neelix, but for me, the cheering happened when Vic's counterpart was killed in the mirror universe (thankfully before he could break out into song!).

Erm, sorry, that was a rant. Anyway, to summarize. Neelix: Annoying. Ethan Phillips: Great. Vic Fontaine: SHUT UP!

 

[The Dominion]

I like Neelix. Like Kes, too. So far, they share some of my favorite moments in VOY (which aren't as many as I'd hoped when I first set out to watch it all the way through). I think Neelix and Kes are adorable together.

They would have been good together, but I think their relationship was wrong. I saw Neelix as a grandfatherly friend/guardian at first, and then I realized that they were supposed to be paired. I didn't even realize what their relationship was at first, I guess I missed it being explained.

Bottom line though, is how possessive he got with her. It came of as dickish and a little creepy, and it also bogged down Kes from forming more developmental relationships with other characters, especially The Doctor.

 

[Amaris]

They would have been good together, but I think their relationship was wrong. I saw Neelix as a grandfatherly friend/guardian at first, and then I realized that they were supposed to be paired. I didn't even realize what their relationship was at first, I guess I missed it being explained.

Bottom line though, is how possessive he got with her. It came of as dickish and a little creepy, and it also bogged down Kes from forming more developmental relationships with other characters, especially The Doctor.

I don't really see the "creepy" aspect, though I do see where some of his actions could be read as unacceptable in his behavior toward her, almost like a jealousy. Then again, he is an alien, and that may be normal for his species. I would have liked to see Kes' role expanded more, but then again, I haven't really seen all of it yet, as I'm just now getting to Season 3.

 

[exodus]

They would have been good together, but I think their relationship was wrong. I saw Neelix as a grandfatherly friend/guardian at first, and then I realized that they were supposed to be paired. I didn't even realize what their relationship was at first, I guess I missed it being explained.

Bottom line though, is how possessive he got with her. It came of as dickish and a little creepy, and it also bogged down Kes from forming more developmental relationships with other characters, especially The Doctor.

I don't really see the "creepy" aspect, though I do see where some of his actions could be read as unacceptable in his behavior toward her, almost like a jealousy. Then again, he is an alien, and that may be normal for his species. I would have liked to see Kes' role expanded more, but then again, I haven't really seen all of it yet, as I'm just now getting to Season 3.

He's jealous because he's lonely.
He's lived half his life with nobody, no family.
He klings to her because she's all he has, he can't handle the idea of her having feelings for another man. He's jealous of Tom because he knows Tom has more to offer.
He loves Kes because he's desperate.
She loves him because he's a meat ticket off her world.

 

[Tidus79001]

Neelix....I wish you to live long & prosper

I alwys felt like Neelix was a watered-down Quark. He wasn't as devious as Quark (though he had his moments), and he wasn't as smart either. I could have appreciated him as the typical "genial alien outsider" if he hadn't been stupid and petty so much of time. His jealousy/possessive with Kes and his basic ineptitude as a crew member were a huge turn-off.

I want to emphasize, however, that the problem was not in the acting, but in the writing. Ethan Phillips was a trooper and did the best he could to make an irritating character likeable. It's to his credit that I don't completely hate Neelix and have even enjoyed the character on occassion. I kind of feel sorry for Phillips the same way I feel sorry for Wil Wheaton, because they both had the bad luck of playing characters many fans hated. And it's not really their fault, it's just the way the characters were written.

The one trek character that I absolutely loathe, however, is the hologram Vic Fontaine from Deep Space Nine. If I wanted to hear a damn lounge act, I'd go see one! And that stupid wanna-be '60s rat-pack vibe of his ... blech. From the moment he appeared on screen, they were basically shoving him down our thoats at the bestest hologram ever! Nope, sorry, that title goes to Voyager's doctor.

What's worse, they started having more scenes in Vic's dumb holo-bar than they did in Quark's real bar. Heck, they even had part of the series finale in there! WTF! And they had him singing entire songs. Again, if I wanted to listen to that kind of music, I'd go get a CD, watch someone perform, whatever. I'm not saying the guy didn't have a good voice, but it just always left me feeling like the writer's couldn't be arsed to write another actual scene, so they just threw another Vic song in.

I know many Neelix-haters cheered when Tuvok strangled holo-Neelix, but for me, the cheering happened when Vic's counterpart was killed in the mirror universe (thankfully before he could break out into song!).

Erm, sorry, that was a rant. Anyway, to summarize. Neelix: Annoying. Ethan Phillips: Great. Vic Fontaine: SHUT UP!

I am glad that Neelix isn't like Quark. I didn't find him to be anything at all like Quark. I never could stand Quark, nor could I stand Odo.

Also I found the Quark/Odo relationship to just be contrived & annoying. The relationship between Neelix/Tuvok was really classlc, and it didn't feel like it was a rip of of the Spock/McCoy relationship.

I really enjoyed the scene where Tuvok strangled Neelix, and then we found it that the Neelix he had strangled to death was a hologram. Those are exactly the type of classic moments that I am referring to with the relationship & interactions of the Neelix/Tuvok characters.

 

[exodus]

^^Yes, Qurak & Neelix are nothing alike.

Quark is Doc Holiday
He's a con artist thats an informant and friend to the sheriff.

Neelix is Leo Getz
the bumbling go to guy thats annoyingly needy.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Ironically, Joe Pesci in real life is more like Martok.