Neelix....I wish you a slow and painful death

[Shatnertage]

Man, Guy Gardner is pushing all my buttons today.

Pulaski was a great character who had a number of fine moments on TNG. I like that she wasn't afraid to stand up to the captain, and that she was enough of a bon vivant to drink the Klingon Death Tea while Worf read her love poetry.

They did it and you know it.

And now onto my defense of Neelix. I'm going to split this off from my deep admiration for Ethan Phillips, which I've talked about before. Let's look at the character of Neelix.

We learn why Neelix is who he is in "Jetrel." While he was off catting around, his entire family was killed. He's got a tremendous load of survivor's guilt, which he sublimates into a need to a) be useful and b) be loved. He was unable to save his family and, one suspects, feels guilty that he wanted to spend time away from them. He might even feel on a purely emotional level that it's his fault they're dead, that if he had been there he might have been able to save them (he couldn't, but that's besides the point).

So he gloms onto Kes, who is a stand-in for his sister. He feels the need to love and protect her, but there's some ambiguity on both their parts about making this a romantic relationship. That's why, other than his jealousy/envy of Tom Paris, a risk-taker who threatens to put Kes in danger should he sweep her off her feet, there's not much of a romantic vibe to the Kes/Neelix dynamic.

Then, in a bigger sense, he gloms onto the Voyager family, where it continues to be very, very important to him that he be a Really Useful Engine. Most guys in his situation would be content to put in their 8 hours, but he just needs to be needed.

This is really clear in his last episode. He doesn't leave Voyager because he doesn't love everyone anymore. He leaves because he realizes that none of them need him anymore. This crystallizes in the NaomiWildman scene.

On the other hand, as Tuvok told him, the Talaxians did need him. So, true to himself, he went where he was needed.

When you get behind the butt-crack face and the goofy outfits, he was actually one of the most psychologically complex characters on the show who had a real arc.

 

[Sandoval]

There's nothing wrong with Pulaski that couldn't be fixed with a shallow grave.

Best thing I've read all week.

 

[sonak]

Man, Guy Gardner is pushing all my buttons today.

Pulaski was a great character who had a number of fine moments on TNG. I like that she wasn't afraid to stand up to the captain, and that she was enough of a bon vivant to drink the Klingon Death Tea while Worf read her love poetry.

They did it and you know it.

And now onto my defense of Neelix. I'm going to split this off from my deep admiration for Ethan Phillips, which I've talked about before. Let's look at the character of Neelix.

We learn why Neelix is who he is in "Jetrel." While he was off catting around, his entire family was killed. He's got a tremendous load of survivor's guilt, which he sublimates into a need to a) be useful and b) be loved. He was unable to save his family and, one suspects, feels guilty that he wanted to spend time away from them. He might even feel on a purely emotional level that it's his fault they're dead, that if he had been there he might have been able to save them (he couldn't, but that's besides the point).

So he gloms onto Kes, who is a stand-in for his sister. He feels the need to love and protect her, but there's some ambiguity on both their parts about making this a romantic relationship. That's why, other than his jealousy/envy of Tom Paris, a risk-taker who threatens to put Kes in danger should he sweep her off her feet, there's not much of a romantic vibe to the Kes/Neelix dynamic.

Then, in a bigger sense, he gloms onto the Voyager family, where it continues to be very, very important to him that he be a Really Useful Engine. Most guys in his situation would be content to put in their 8 hours, but he just needs to be needed.

This is really clear in his last episode. He doesn't leave Voyager because he doesn't love everyone anymore. He leaves because he realizes that none of them need him anymore. This crystallizes in the NaomiWildman scene.

On the other hand, as Tuvok told him, the Talaxians did need him. So, true to himself, he went where he was needed.

When you get behind the butt-crack face and the goofy outfits, he was actually one of the most psychologically complex characters on the show who had a real arc.

that's a good attempted defense. The problem is that too often he was just annoying, and he would try to "help" people who didn't want his help.(Tuvok comes to mind)

He was jealous and possessive toward Kes to where it wasn't charming or funny, just very irritating.

He didn't recognize when he wasn't competent at something, seeing himself as a jack-of-all trades and end up screwing something up.

 

[Gary7]

And now onto my defense of Neelix. I'm going to split this off from my deep admiration for Ethan Phillips, which I've talked about before. Let's look at the character of Neelix.

We learn why Neelix is who he is in "Jetrel." While he was off catting around, his entire family was killed. He's got a tremendous load of survivor's guilt, which he sublimates into a need to a) be useful and b) be loved. He was unable to save his family and, one suspects, feels guilty that he wanted to spend time away from them. He might even feel on a purely emotional level that it's his fault they're dead, that if he had been there he might have been able to save them (he couldn't, but that's besides the point).

So he gloms onto Kes, who is a stand-in for his sister. He feels the need to love and protect her, but there's some ambiguity on both their parts about making this a romantic relationship. That's why, other than his jealousy/envy of Tom Paris, a risk-taker who threatens to put Kes in danger should he sweep her off her feet, there's not much of a romantic vibe to the Kes/Neelix dynamic.

Then, in a bigger sense, he gloms onto the Voyager family, where it continues to be very, very important to him that he be a Really Useful Engine. Most guys in his situation would be content to put in their 8 hours, but he just needs to be needed.

This is really clear in his last episode. He doesn't leave Voyager because he doesn't love everyone anymore. He leaves because he realizes that none of them need him anymore. This crystallizes in the NaomiWildman scene.

On the other hand, as Tuvok told him, the Talaxians did need him. So, true to himself, he went where he was needed.

When you get behind the butt-crack face and the goofy outfits, he was actually one of the most psychologically complex characters on the show who had a real arc.

QFT. Very well said.

Neelix was annoying in the beginning... but when you apply the background situation for him as you describe, you start to understand why. And then he isn't so annoying. You can empathize with the poor guy. I mean, LOSING YOUR ENTIRE FAMILY. You just don't forget something like that. I wish we'd seen a few occasions where Kes finds Neelix wallowing in depression, and he confesses something caught him off guard and reminded him of one of his kids, or his wife, and just got in touch with the pain of the loss again.

Ethan Philips is a decent solid character actor. I think he did a fine job with what he had to work with.

 

[The Dominion]

I wish we'd seen a few occasions where Kes finds Neelix wallowing in depression, and he confesses something caught him off guard and reminded him of one of his kids, or his wife, and just got in touch with the pain of the loss again.

I wish we would've seen more of that too. But we didn't, did we?

 

[Shatnertage]

I don't believe I used the phrase, "get behind the butt-crack face."

I meant go beyond.

 

[The Dominion]

Or get inside?

They could have done a whole episode directly from Neelix's PoV, so the audience would be Neelix.

 

[JB2005]

It'd be like the awesomeness of Data's day...except without Data...and awesomeness...

 

[UnknownSample]

All I can say is, nice guys finish last, I guess. If Neelix ticks off someone who jokes about offing characters he doesn't like, then good for Neelix, it's a point in his favor. Pulaski? Great character, far better for me than the anemic, bland Crusher.

 

[Ln X]

I think most of you are just jealous that he got to nail Kes!!

:b

Absolutely, a lot slashed wrists from disappointed Trek male fans... Even though Neelix was Janeway's pet Talixian rodent, he doesn't deserve to die...

 

[JB2005]

..... died ((
I always look here http://yourdeathdate.info/1/index.html
Death when it comes will have no denial.

Umm...Guards?

 

[exodus]

Man, Guy Gardner is pushing all my buttons today.

Pulaski was a great character who had a number of fine moments on TNG. I like that she wasn't afraid to stand up to the captain, and that she was enough of a bon vivant to drink the Klingon Death Tea while Worf read her love poetry.

They did it and you know it.

And now onto my defense of Neelix. I'm going to split this off from my deep admiration for Ethan Phillips, which I've talked about before. Let's look at the character of Neelix.

We learn why Neelix is who he is in "Jetrel." While he was off catting around, his entire family was killed. He's got a tremendous load of survivor's guilt, which he sublimates into a need to a) be useful and b) be loved. He was unable to save his family and, one suspects, feels guilty that he wanted to spend time away from them. He might even feel on a purely emotional level that it's his fault they're dead, that if he had been there he might have been able to save them (he couldn't, but that's besides the point).

So he gloms onto Kes, who is a stand-in for his sister. He feels the need to love and protect her, but there's some ambiguity on both their parts about making this a romantic relationship. That's why, other than his jealousy/envy of Tom Paris, a risk-taker who threatens to put Kes in danger should he sweep her off her feet, there's not much of a romantic vibe to the Kes/Neelix dynamic.

Then, in a bigger sense, he gloms onto the Voyager family, where it continues to be very, very important to him that he be a Really Useful Engine. Most guys in his situation would be content to put in their 8 hours, but he just needs to be needed.

This is really clear in his last episode. He doesn't leave Voyager because he doesn't love everyone anymore. He leaves because he realizes that none of them need him anymore. This crystallizes in the NaomiWildman scene.

On the other hand, as Tuvok told him, the Talaxians did need him. So, true to himself, he went where he was needed.

When you get behind the butt-crack face and the goofy outfits, he was actually one of the most psychologically complex characters on the show who had a real arc.

that's a good attempted defense. The problem is that too often he was just annoying, and he would try to "help" people who didn't want his help.(Tuvok comes to mind)

He was jealous and possessive toward Kes to where it wasn't charming or funny, just very irritating.

He didn't recognize when he wasn't competent at something, seeing himself as a jack-of-all trades and end up screwing something up.

Besides the jealousy, it sounds just like Barclay too me.
Neelix was raised on the "street" and didn't have Starfleet education, Barclay did and he was still a fuck up.
Neelix has an excuse, what's Barclays?
I also recall Neelix admitting to Tuvok that he was smarter, better and superior to Neelix in everyway but just because he wasn't as good as Tuvok didn't mean he didn't deserve respect as a person.
That alone makes Neelix wiser than Tuvok.

 

[VulcanJedi]

There is literally no character in all of Trek who is as nice and sweet a guy as Neelix. Granted, he can be quite annoying, but enough to kill him off? Puh-lease.

Did you wish death on the John Candy character in Planes, Trains and Automobiles as well?

'S like kicking puppies...

Good example. I can already hear the song that plays the credits----great film for this time of year too "Everytime you go ---away---you take a piece of me..." Great film. Thanks John Hughes.

 

[sonak]

Man, Guy Gardner is pushing all my buttons today.

Pulaski was a great character who had a number of fine moments on TNG. I like that she wasn't afraid to stand up to the captain, and that she was enough of a bon vivant to drink the Klingon Death Tea while Worf read her love poetry.

They did it and you know it.

And now onto my defense of Neelix. I'm going to split this off from my deep admiration for Ethan Phillips, which I've talked about before. Let's look at the character of Neelix.

We learn why Neelix is who he is in "Jetrel." While he was off catting around, his entire family was killed. He's got a tremendous load of survivor's guilt, which he sublimates into a need to a) be useful and b) be loved. He was unable to save his family and, one suspects, feels guilty that he wanted to spend time away from them. He might even feel on a purely emotional level that it's his fault they're dead, that if he had been there he might have been able to save them (he couldn't, but that's besides the point).

So he gloms onto Kes, who is a stand-in for his sister. He feels the need to love and protect her, but there's some ambiguity on both their parts about making this a romantic relationship. That's why, other than his jealousy/envy of Tom Paris, a risk-taker who threatens to put Kes in danger should he sweep her off her feet, there's not much of a romantic vibe to the Kes/Neelix dynamic.

Then, in a bigger sense, he gloms onto the Voyager family, where it continues to be very, very important to him that he be a Really Useful Engine. Most guys in his situation would be content to put in their 8 hours, but he just needs to be needed.

This is really clear in his last episode. He doesn't leave Voyager because he doesn't love everyone anymore. He leaves because he realizes that none of them need him anymore. This crystallizes in the NaomiWildman scene.

On the other hand, as Tuvok told him, the Talaxians did need him. So, true to himself, he went where he was needed.

When you get behind the butt-crack face and the goofy outfits, he was actually one of the most psychologically complex characters on the show who had a real arc.

that's a good attempted defense. The problem is that too often he was just annoying, and he would try to "help" people who didn't want his help.(Tuvok comes to mind)

He was jealous and possessive toward Kes to where it wasn't charming or funny, just very irritating.

He didn't recognize when he wasn't competent at something, seeing himself as a jack-of-all trades and end up screwing something up.

Besides the jealousy, it sounds just like Barclay too me.
Neelix was raised on the "street" and didn't have Starfleet education, Barclay did and he was still a fuck up.
Neelix has an excuse, what's Barclays?
I also recall Neelix admitting to Tuvok that he was smarter, better and superior to Neelix in everyway but just because he wasn't as good as Tuvok didn't mean he didn't deserve respect as a person.
That alone makes Neelix wiser than Tuvok.

er, what? Neelix was nothing like Barclay other than that they were both male.

Barclay suffered from either extreme shyness or social anxiety disorder. This expressed itself in his timidity and lack of confidence.

When did Barclay force his help on people who didn't want it or pretend to be a jack-of-all trades?(other than in "the Nth Degree," which wasn't really his fault)

seems like you're kind of reaching here.

 

[exodus]

that's a good attempted defense. The problem is that too often he was just annoying, and he would try to "help" people who didn't want his help.(Tuvok comes to mind)

He was jealous and possessive toward Kes to where it wasn't charming or funny, just very irritating.

He didn't recognize when he wasn't competent at something, seeing himself as a jack-of-all trades and end up screwing something up.

Besides the jealousy, it sounds just like Barclay too me.
Neelix was raised on the "street" and didn't have Starfleet education, Barclay did and he was still a fuck up.
Neelix has an excuse, what's Barclays?
I also recall Neelix admitting to Tuvok that he was smarter, better and superior to Neelix in everyway but just because he wasn't as good as Tuvok didn't mean he didn't deserve respect as a person.
That alone makes Neelix wiser than Tuvok.

er, what? Neelix was nothing like Barclay other than that they were both male.

Barclay suffered from either extreme shyness or social anxiety disorder. This expressed itself in his timidity and lack of confidence.

When did Barclay force his help on people who didn't want it or pretend to be a jack-of-all trades?(other than in "the Nth Degree," which wasn't really his fault)

seems like you're kind of reaching here.

Yes, you're right Neelix was better.
Barclay was a fuck up that could barely do the job he was given due to his erratic and unstable nature thus putting the crew at risk because his focus was on his personal issues instead of his job. He also wasn't very well liked by those he served with, even by higher ranking officers as shown in.....
"Pathfinder"
Barclay continues to force his idea on his superiors after repeatedly told by his commanding officers not too.

 

[sonak]

Besides the jealousy, it sounds just like Barclay too me.
Neelix was raised on the "street" and didn't have Starfleet education, Barclay did and he was still a fuck up.
Neelix has an excuse, what's Barclays?
I also recall Neelix admitting to Tuvok that he was smarter, better and superior to Neelix in everyway but just because he wasn't as good as Tuvok didn't mean he didn't deserve respect as a person.
That alone makes Neelix wiser than Tuvok.

er, what? Neelix was nothing like Barclay other than that they were both male.

Barclay suffered from either extreme shyness or social anxiety disorder. This expressed itself in his timidity and lack of confidence.

When did Barclay force his help on people who didn't want it or pretend to be a jack-of-all trades?(other than in "the Nth Degree," which wasn't really his fault)

seems like you're kind of reaching here.

Yes, you're right Neelix was better.
Barclay was a fuck up that could barely do the job he was given due to his erratic and unstable nature thus putting the crew at risk because his focus was on his personal issues instead of his job. He also wasn't very well liked by those he served with, even by higher ranking officers as shown in.....
"Pathfinder"
Barclay continues to force his idea on his superiors after repeatedly told by his commanding officers not too.

Barclay was competent but socially awkward and not annoying. Neelix combined incompetence with irrational jealousy, as well as a myriad of other annoying traits.

I guess we'll agree to disagree.

 

[Ln X]

I think both Barclay and Neelix had a few cringe worthy moments, but I wouldn't say they were horrible characters. It's just Neelix was like Quark in terms of getting him into the action and the exciting stuff that took place in Voyager.

In other words Neelix was a duller character, whereas Quark had whole themes and story arcs devoted to him. That's probably why the attempt to make Neelix VOY's Quark, didn't work out... Well from season four and onwards, it didn't work out...

 

[The Dominion]

Neelix was pretty terrible in the first three seasons, he got less terrible in season four, but season five onwards he was a genuinely good character. Problem was, by that time he had used up most of his usefulness.

 

[exodus]

Neelix was pretty terrible in the first three seasons, he got less terrible in season four, but season five onwards he was a genuinely good character. Problem was, by that time he had used up most of his usefulness.

Yes, I greatly agree that Neelix got better as the show went on but I don't feel he lost his usefulness. He seemed to take on the role Kes left open, as the sympathetic shoulder to cry on.
Janeway, Be'Lanna, Tuvok, Paris & Seven all sought him out for emotional comfort. Due to this, you could see the bond between him and those characters grow stronger. Neelix also gave us the Talaxian beach resort holodeck program which is an awesome distraction for a homesick crew.

 

[Mr.AtoZ]

I do not know the Voyager series very well but from what I've seen I can appreciate what people are saying about Neelix. He certainly had some annoying qualities often seen in the earlier seasons. Yet later he seemed to have developed and had more admirable qualities. It is easy to toss Neelix into the trash bin if you do not look at the bigger picture. He was an important part of the series and it would have been a shame if he were cast off earlier on.