Need Advice -- Math Help For My Son

[John Picard]

Long story short, my son (age 15) has been living with his mother (and her dipshit husband) for the past three years. She fed him a load of BS how he should be living with her, etc, and the senile judge ignored all evidence that she violated the Judicial Guidelines of Divorced Parents (Oklahoma), involved him in the divorce, etc and switched homes. Since then, my son has slowly figured out that she and her husband are idiots and I don't think he wants to admit it, much less state that he'd like to live with me. My ex does just enough bribery with material objects to keep him duped.

He's extremely intelligent; however, my ex comes from a family of complete ignoramuses. She treats school like a day care and does not encourage learning outside of class. Because of this, he's suffered in math by scraping by with a D in pre-algebra this year. It pissed me off for many reasons, mainly because he was a stellar student when he lived with me as I would always work with him. Anyway, she "warned" me earlier this year that he would have to repeat algebra next year. It's bad enough that she had him repeat the previous year's math when he went to live with her (he enrolled in school 4 days after classes started ) and he was complacent that whole year.

Don't even get me started on the approach she took for his being tutored. It was a complete joke.

Anyway, I want to work with him over the summer to get him up to speed on Algebra. I need some recommendations for some books and material. Meanwhile, I'm working to correct the issue of his living with mom.

Oh, don't bother asking about her husband. The guy is so stupid that he literally can't dress himself.

 

[Yeoman Randi]

Man, your situation sucks. Sorry! Do you live near your son? If so, maybe you could talk to his teacher and see what he/she recommends? I would think he/she could be a really good source of information, including what your son's strengths and weakness are. Good luck!

 

[Jadzia]

I remember when I was learning algebra at school, and it took me longer than it should have to get my head around it. I never knew what I was supposed to be doing with an equation.

And the reason was that what my teacher kept showing me was not what I needed to see, but it was only afterwards that I could see this was the reason. Looking back, the missing piece of the puzzle for me was that I needed to understand what and why, rather than how.

I've never been fond of books. I've always believed that a good teacher is worth more than books. So preparing yourself to teach your son algebra might be better than buying him a book and working through a few questions with him.

For example, help your son to work out the rules of algebra for himself, and to understand why they are what they are.

What is solving an equation all about? Why do you have to gather terms together? And why x and not y? Then get him to think of an equation like a balanced pair of weighing scales. What can you do that keeps the scales balanced? Deducing things like this for oneself is worth infinitely more than memory based learning.

 

[John Picard]

Man, your situation sucks. Sorry! Do you live near your son? If so, maybe you could talk to his teacher and see what he/she recommends? I would think he/she could be a really good source of information, including what your son's strengths and weakness are. Good luck!

Yes, I get weekends and other time. The problem is that his math teacher is the typical worthless public school type. My-ex testified a long BS story that she attended the school during her middle school years and knew it quite well. Then, the problems started and all she did was whine to me how stupid the teachers were, problems with the school, etc. In other words, par for the course when it comes to her. A former g/f of mine, trained in psychology, pegged her as having Borderline Personality Disorder.

I remember when I was learning algebra at school, and it took me longer than it should have to get my head around it. I never knew what I was supposed to be doing with an equation.

And the reason was that what my teacher kept showing me was not what I needed to see, but it was only afterwards that I could see this was the reason. Looking back, the missing piece of the puzzle for me was that I needed to understand what and why, rather than how.

I've never been fond of books. I've always believed that a good teacher is worth more than books. So preparing yourself to teach your son algebra might be better than buying him a book and working through a few questions with him.

For example, help your son to work out the rules of algebra for himself, and to understand why they are what they are.

What is solving an equation all about? Why do you have to gather terms together? And why x and not y? Then get him to think of an equation like a balanced pair of weighing scales. What can you do that keeps the scales balanced? Deducing things like this for oneself worth infinitely more than memory based learning.

Yes, you are quite right. He's good at solving problems, and the issue is that it is the teacher who is at fault and not the student. The teacher has to adjust the method to get the message across to the student. My dad was an engineer but couldn't explain anything to anyone. He would get so angry if we didn't understand an algebraic concept he would start yelling and beating us. That gave me a phobia of math for years. Meanwhile, I've had some excellent math instructors in college.

What I need is some type of books/material I can acquire so I can work with him this summer. My son is like I am -- he needs a perceived goal; otherwise, it doesn't hold his interest. When living with me, he was an A student, in the Gifted and Talented Program, Honor Roll, etc. While living with mom, he's become complacent, lethargic, has no good role models, and in his 6th grade year was suspended for over 33 days -- and the idiot judge STILL let him stay with her

 

[Jadzia]

The only algebra book I found useful was this one:

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...ostock+chandler+pure&cd=2#v=onepage&q&f=false

I fear that may be a year or two too advanced for him though, but I don't know what sort of material is taught for age 15 in US. This book covers a lot of elementary algebra, but it assumes the reader can already manipulate and solve small equations.

 

[John Picard]

The only algebra book I found useful was this one:

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...ostock+chandler+pure&cd=2#v=onepage&q&f=false

I fear that may be a year or two too advanced for him though, but I don't know what sort of material is taught for age 15 in US. This book covers a lot of elementary algebra, but it assumes the reader can already manipulate and solve small equations.

Nice suggestion, but I need something a bit more elementary for him.

 

[Kestra]

Just see if you can borrow a book from the school.

 

[Dukat's Major]

Hi JP (Elmo here ... new username). I'm sorry to hear about your situation, it sounds frustrating, infuriating, and all-around hair-pulling.

I suggest that if he's having that much trouble with algebra, you should find a good, solid pre-algebra book.

This one is pretty cheap used...you should start there, then move into algebra.

Good on you for taking charge of the situation, BTW. It might not seem like it now, but he'll remember everything you do to reach out to him when he's older. And that's what really matters --- one is only a teen for a little while, but when he's an adult and wants an adult relationship with his parents, he'll likely gravitate towards the one who gave him the most support, and was the most stable. Sorry this is so hard for you.

 

[John Picard]

Hi JP (Elmo here ... new username). I'm sorry to hear about your situation, it sounds frustrating, infuriating, and all-around hair-pulling.

I suggest that if he's having that much trouble with algebra, you should find a good, solid pre-algebra book.

This one is pretty cheap used...you should start there, then move into algebra.

Good on you for taking charge of the situation, BTW. It might not seem like it now, but he'll remember everything you do to reach out to him when he's older. And that's what really matters --- one is only a teen for a little while, but when he's an adult and wants an adult relationship with his parents, he'll likely gravitate towards the one who gave him the most support, and was the most stable. Sorry this is so hard for you.

Hey! Glad to see you're back. Brilliant recommendation, and that's just what I need.

 

[K'Ehleyr]

Is there anything on-line that can help. In the UK we have lots of educational sites. Son has found lots of revision help on various sites. It's more interactive than a book and more fun ~ which helps!

I admire your concern. Son is 17 and I'm all over his back about college work.

 

[TheBrew]

Hi JP (Elmo here ... new username). I'm sorry to hear about your situation, it sounds frustrating, infuriating, and all-around hair-pulling.

I suggest that if he's having that much trouble with algebra, you should find a good, solid pre-algebra book.

This one is pretty cheap used...you should start there, then move into algebra.

Good on you for taking charge of the situation, BTW. It might not seem like it now, but he'll remember everything you do to reach out to him when he's older. And that's what really matters --- one is only a teen for a little while, but when he's an adult and wants an adult relationship with his parents, he'll likely gravitate towards the one who gave him the most support, and was the most stable. Sorry this is so hard for you.

I tried to PM, but I guess it is disabled. However, I wanted to say welcome back!

 

[Jadzia]

Hi JP (Elmo here ... new username). I'm sorry to hear about your situation, it sounds frustrating, infuriating, and...

Nice to see you back Elmo

 

[greenguy]

Disclaimer: I have been tutoring professionally with a firm and also on my own for about 10 years and consider myself a better teacher than 98% of all public school teachers in the U.S. I have taught entire classrooms and many individuals. That said, I do not have an education degree (but a few others), but this is irrelevant and I don't think you need one.

I would blame the ex-wife and the living situation before the teacher. Students who are willing, diligent, and intelligent, especially at lower levels, can easily overcome and supersede shoddy teaching if they are forced to pay attention to a textbook and do homework. Prealgebra and algebra are topics where repetition and exposure are more important than actually understanding the concepts fully. It takes an advanced and trained mind to truly understand how and why algebra works; understanding can come later in Algebra 2 or Calculus, but for now he needs to be diligently doing math work so he can approach any problem and say, "This is x type of problem and all I have to do is y set of rules/operations." Prealgebra is especially important because it is rules, operations of numbers, functions, ratios, percent/decimal/fraction work much moreso than equations, and you will not be able to get anywhere in algebra, geometry, calculus, physics, or chemistry without a solid pre-alg foundation.

Due to the obvious lack of oversight, work ethic/reinforcement, and the resulting shaky ground for any future he has in mathematics or science, your son absolutely needs a private tutor who specializes in math, ASAP---30 minute sessions, two to three times a week, and they need to thoroughly go through an entire textbook of both Pre-Alg and then Algebra. Hour+ may be pushing it especially for math, and more sessions a week with less time will keep his mind more active and focused. I would suggest Glencoe or McDougal-Littell's texts on Pre-Algebra and Algebra as their books are thorough but approachable. The teacher's edition should be purchased as it contains solutions, annotations, diagnostics, and explanations. Any tutor worth his or her weight will diagnose any significant holes along the way. You need to tell him that you are extremely serious and concerned about this, but do not blame him (yet).

I don't mean to get pedantic but you are right to be concerned and pissed that he is failing math, especially something as foundational as pre-algebra and algebra. These topics are absolutely crucial not just for anything math-related, but also for real life: standardized testing tests breadth in mathematics relatively more than depth, and then there is the handling of numbers and problem-solving in general. These concepts will only get harder as he ages, puts it off, and doesn't develop his skills further.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Hi JP (Elmo here ... new username). I'm sorry to hear about your situation, it sounds frustrating, infuriating, and all-around hair-pulling.

I suggest that if he's having that much trouble with algebra, you should find a good, solid pre-algebra book.

This one is pretty cheap used...you should start there, then move into algebra.

Good on you for taking charge of the situation, BTW. It might not seem like it now, but he'll remember everything you do to reach out to him when he's older. And that's what really matters --- one is only a teen for a little while, but when he's an adult and wants an adult relationship with his parents, he'll likely gravitate towards the one who gave him the most support, and was the most stable. Sorry this is so hard for you.

I tried to PM, but I guess it is disabled. However, I wanted to say welcome back!

Disabled because she's a cadet. You have to rack up so many posts and be here a certain length of time. 50 posts, 2 weeks? Something like that.

 

[John Picard]

I would blame the ex-wife and the living situation before the teacher.

I do. Another interesting tidbit is that his mom lived in a bad school district (where she grew up) and convinced him he needed to attend that school. Two years later, she moves to a WORSE school district and gets a waiver to send him back to the bad district Only she can see the logic in that train wreck.

Students who are willing, diligent, and intelligent, especially at lower levels, can easily overcome and supersede shoddy teaching if they are forced to pay attention to a textbook and do homework. Prealgebra and algebra are topics where repetition and exposure are more important than actually understanding the concepts fully. It takes an advanced and trained mind to truly understand how and why algebra works; understanding can come later in Algebra 2 or Calculus, but for now he needs to be diligently doing math work so he can approach any problem and say, "This is x type of problem and all I have to do is y set of rules/operations." Prealgebra is especially important because it is rules, operations of numbers, functions, ratios, percent/decimal/fraction work much moreso than equations, and you will not be able to get anywhere in algebra, geometry, calculus, physics, or chemistry without a solid pre-alg foundation.

Due to the obvious lack of oversight, work ethic/reinforcement, and the resulting shaky ground for any future he has in mathematics or science, your son absolutely needs a private tutor who specializes in math, ASAP---30 minute sessions, two to three times a week, and they need to thoroughly go through an entire textbook of both Pre-Alg and then Algebra. Hour+ may be pushing it especially for math, and more sessions a week with less time will keep his mind more active and focused. I would suggest Glencoe or McDougal-Littell's texts on Pre-Algebra and Algebra as their books are thorough but approachable. The teacher's edition should be purchased as it contains solutions, annotations, diagnostics, and explanations. Any tutor worth his or her weight will diagnose any significant holes along the way. You need to tell him that you are extremely serious and concerned about this, but do not blame him (yet).

His mother and I are two parenting styles. She has kids "just because" and anything that doesn't glorify her is a waste of time and she won't bother with it, whereas I will stop what I'm doing, help him, and then move on. Her latest gimmick at the last court review was to claim that she was using a free tutoring service provided by the Army. That was going to "fix everything". Two months later, she's bitching up a storm to me that the math teacher "isn't doing enough".

I don't mean to get pedantic but you are right to be concerned and pissed that he is failing math, especially something as foundational as pre-algebra and algebra. These topics are absolutely crucial not just for anything math-related, but also for real life: standardized testing tests breadth in mathematics relatively more than depth, and then there is the handling of numbers and problem-solving in general. These concepts will only get harder as he ages, puts it off, and doesn't develop his skills further.

I'm pissed because I have idiot lawyers and an imbecile judge admonishing both of us that he's highly intelligent but none has held mom accountable that she barely encourages him to achieve mediocrity. We'll see what happens as I'm working to correct that.

 

[Dukat's Major]

Don't want to threadjack, but I wanted to say hi back...ooh, the board looks so different than I remember! Look at all those smilies. Weird.

JP, glad to help! Of course, if there are professional tutors with better advice, listen to them. I only ever tutored college physics and calculus, but I did teach pre-algebra and algebra one summer. Long ago.

Hi JP (Elmo here ... new username). I'm sorry to hear about your situation, it sounds frustrating, infuriating, and all-around hair-pulling.

I suggest that if he's having that much trouble with algebra, you should find a good, solid pre-algebra book.

This one is pretty cheap used...you should start there, then move into algebra.

Good on you for taking charge of the situation, BTW. It might not seem like it now, but he'll remember everything you do to reach out to him when he's older. And that's what really matters --- one is only a teen for a little while, but when he's an adult and wants an adult relationship with his parents, he'll likely gravitate towards the one who gave him the most support, and was the most stable. Sorry this is so hard for you.

I tried to PM, but I guess it is disabled. However, I wanted to say welcome back!

Thanks! Yes, I'm a cadet...so strange, it's been years and years since I was a cadet (and I wasn't one long lol...I think blablover5 and company helped me move up the ranks pretty fast lol).

Hi JP (Elmo here ... new username). I'm sorry to hear about your situation, it sounds frustrating, infuriating, and...

Nice to see you back Elmo

Hey, Jadzia!!!

Hi JP (Elmo here ... new username). I'm sorry to hear about your situation, it sounds frustrating, infuriating, and all-around hair-pulling.

I suggest that if he's having that much trouble with algebra, you should find a good, solid pre-algebra book.

This one is pretty cheap used...you should start there, then move into algebra.

Good on you for taking charge of the situation, BTW. It might not seem like it now, but he'll remember everything you do to reach out to him when he's older. And that's what really matters --- one is only a teen for a little while, but when he's an adult and wants an adult relationship with his parents, he'll likely gravitate towards the one who gave him the most support, and was the most stable. Sorry this is so hard for you.

I tried to PM, but I guess it is disabled. However, I wanted to say welcome back!

Disabled because she's a cadet. You have to rack up so many posts and be here a certain length of time. 50 posts, 2 weeks? Something like that.

Something like that

 

[JiNX-01]

Long story short, my son (age 15) has been living with his mother (and her dipshit husband) for the past three years. She fed him a load of BS how he should be living with her, etc, and the senile judge ignored all evidence that she violated the Judicial Guidelines of Divorced Parents (Oklahoma), involved him in the divorce, etc and switched homes. Since then, my son has slowly figured out that she and her husband are idiots and I don't think he wants to admit it, much less state that he'd like to live with me. My ex does just enough bribery with material objects to keep him duped.

He's extremely intelligent; however, my ex comes from a family of complete ignoramuses. She treats school like a day care and does not encourage learning outside of class. Because of this, he's suffered in math by scraping by with a D in pre-algebra this year. It pissed me off for many reasons, mainly because he was a stellar student when he lived with me as I would always work with him. Anyway, she "warned" me earlier this year that he would have to repeat algebra next year. It's bad enough that she had him repeat the previous year's math when he went to live with her (he enrolled in school 4 days after classes started ) and he was complacent that whole year.

Don't even get me started on the approach she took for his being tutored. It was a complete joke.

Anyway, I want to work with him over the summer to get him up to speed on Algebra. I need some recommendations for some books and material. Meanwhile, I'm working to correct the issue of his living with mom.

Oh, don't bother asking about her husband. The guy is so stupid that he literally can't dress himself.

Well, I just took a look at a web site that says in Oklahoma, a child age 12 or older can choose who to live with.

 

[John Picard]

Well, I just took a look at a web site that says in Oklahoma, a child age 12 or older can choose who to live with.

Have you been through a divorce? Check around with people and learn how vindictive a controlling ex can be. Many non-custodial parents, who only want to get back at the ex, play mind-games with the child(ren) and con them into wanting to change households. You'll just have to trust me on this one as it would take too much typed text to explain.

 

[Dukat's Major]

Well, I just took a look at a web site that says in Oklahoma, a child age 12 or older can choose who to live with.

Have you been through a divorce? Check around with people and learn how vindictive a controlling ex can be. Many non-custodial parents, who only want to get back at the ex, play mind-games with the child(ren) and con them into wanting to change households. You'll just have to trust me on this one as it would take too much typed text to explain.

I completely agree with JP here. We were in a similar situation where a vindictive ex basically bribed the kids to come back --- did things for them like take them shopping constantly, out to eat, out to their favorite places, gave them rides, etc ---- with the implication that it would continue once they agreed to live back at home.

Of course, it hasn't continued. But it did convince rather malleable teenagers to move back.