NCC numbers, hyperdrive, and the TAS Bonaventure

Discussion in 'Trek Tech' started by Mres_was_framed!, Dec 16, 2018.

  1. uniderth

    uniderth Commodore Commodore

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    Wow I never noticed before that those were actually "CC". I just thought they were windows or something.
     
  2. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    (Port part, actually.)

    Or then on the flat part, below the NCC bit...

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  3. BK613

    BK613 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    No, the port side is the side we can see. Port = left, Starboard = right. Since the numerical part is before the NCC on the Bonaventure's registry, it would wrap around to the starboard.
     
  4. yotsuya

    yotsuya Commander Red Shirt

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    I've always taken that line in The Cage as they had perfected warp drive and removed an earlier flaw that didn't keep the crew safe from the relativistic effects. Bonaventure could have been top secret and Sarah April on the crew before the Columbia set out and been lost after April left the ship. And all that would be more than 35 years previous to the TAS episode making Spocks comment fit in (though it is close enough to be a bit snarky, as he sometimes is with humans).
     
  5. Gabriel

    Gabriel Captain Captain

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    Well for me I take early tos dialogue at half value. I will believe it unless it contradict something said in later series. I do this because I love all live action Star Trek series, Enterprise included. And also because they were still figuring out Star Trek in the early times By the ways don’t feel the need to explain why enterprise sucked I have already Had enough for one lifetime. However I can see why people don’t like it. I just don’t agree with them

    I don’t include TAS because it feels outrageous and plus wasn’t it uncanonized by CBS for a time.
    Plus I liked Chekhov.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2019
  6. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That's actually an excellent way to interpret Tyler's line. Unfortunately future ST history hasn't borne that out. :(
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2019
  7. Ithekro

    Ithekro Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The NX-class had the stabilizer between the nacelles, supposedly to help with the higher warp speeds. The Constitution-class has no such device. So either that was part of the breakthrough Tyler was mentioning, or they managed to integrate that function into the warp system better.
     
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  8. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    My hobby-horse on the stabilizer thing: it is both the warp field fine-tuning doodad that Doug Drexler postulates and the impulse drive -enabling crystal that Shane Johnson postulates. That is, impulse drive absolutely requires the inertial-mass-reducing properties of subspace fields, and any ship with the blue dome thingamabob achieves this by manipulating the main warp field. Any ship that lacks the dome whatchamacallit uses dedicated internal impulse coils instead for the mass-reduction purpose. Such internal coils are considered a novelty for the Ambassador class in the TNG Tech Manual, and the Ambassador is the first domeless design after a streak of TOS movie ships that all had domes...

    Perhaps the internal impulse coils of Pike's ship in the early 2250s made possible quick and efficient impulse travel in an environment where warp was considered risky? Note that in order to reach Talos, Pike orders his ship to engage warp - suggesting the ship wasn't at warp previously, despite being underway from Rigel to Vega... Possibly with the new impulse engines, ships no longer have to crawl through the Tyme Barrier at 0.15 c, but can maintain a full 0.78 c with little risk? (As every skipper knows, although warp is possible as well within Tyme, it's risky and inefficient, a Tyme warp factor of seven being little better than a regular warp factor of 1.5.)

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  9. Boris Skrbic

    Boris Skrbic Captain Captain

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    The impulse deflection crystal was about redirecting that swirly M/AMR reaction from the main vertical shaft into the impulse engines, as opposed to the later independent-fusion-reactor approach.
     
  10. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Or then not. Quite a few tidbits discourage us from believing in that original intent now:

    - The vertical shaft can't really be located directly below the crystal dome thing, the way the sets were built and shot. It must be farther back - but of course it not need be vertical all the way.
    - Other ships have their like domes in locations that do little justice to the concept.
    - Wheh Kirk utterly destroys Khan's dome, Khan keeps on flying at impulse, while his ability to do warp is either diminished or lost.

    In any case, impulse having its separate power source is an old rather than a new thing: TOS worked on that premise often enough. Doesn't mean there'd need to be an era where main/warp power cannot be channeled into the impulse engines. But we do need eras where that can be accomplished without domes or crystals!

    Oh, I thought the idea was to have a regular NCC-something number there, rather than the weirdly inverted one? In that fantasyverse where the three light fixtures got properly used as the letters NCC, that is.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  11. GeekFilter

    GeekFilter Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    That still would have been uncentered on the saucer. None of the main TAS designers (really only 2 people probably who would have done ships) would have done that or even put the registry there, so odds are it was an afterthought added by a production artist at the behest of the art director or even Lou after a comment from Dorothy. That’s the speculation at least. Bob Kline, who designed the ship, has no recollection and the ships he sketched at the same time all have standard (very low) registration numbers.
     
  12. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Can we really say uncentered, based on the barely-in-perspective art that actually appeared onscreen? If the artist merely left out the "-15" when going for coffee after doing the "NCC", and subsequently went home angry and tired because the coffee machine had broken down, we'd get pretty much what we see. Plenty of room for that "-15" before the next row of portholes...

    Actually, I could well see one of the responsible artists putting in "NCC" and then deliberately leaving a space for some numbers those interested in such things would wish to pick for the ship. And then such a person indeed coming in and squibbling some random numbers on the nacelle while not noticing the saucer thing at all.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  13. GeekFilter

    GeekFilter Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Since I know the artist and we have discussed this, yes, yes I can really say that.

    The Bonaventure was one of 100 sketches created for the first episode's derelict vessel (what became the alien pod ship). Gene was unclear what he wanted (shocking, I know) and just said "derelict ship" and Bob thought it was a derelict Starfleet vessel because at that that point they didn't have the script. Gene just kept saying it was wrong, and Bob kept changing it. The Bonnie was earlier in that process but far enough along he had done enough that he just didn't add a registry # anymore. Down the road when they needed a ship graveyard they pulled out the unused concepts and one of those early, non-registried ships was used as the Bonaventure. The production artist would have added the registry and the ink and paint would have realized it, but the number isn't in the script and no one got to proof it before it went under the camera.

    There was no global Star Trek brand back then and they were moving very fast to make the deadlines for getting the shows out every week (or nearly every week depending on sports and holidays) so oversight was slight.

    Also Bob was a naval artist and a lot of those ships had pretty detailed orthographic drawings so I'd dispute the "barely-in-perspective" comment. We were able to make a pretty accurate 3-D model based off that one drawing.

    Cheers!
     
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  14. publiusr

    publiusr Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I want to see those 100 sketches.
     
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  15. GeekFilter

    GeekFilter Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    You'll be able to see a few in the new book #ShamelessSelfPromotion :-)