NCC-1701 vs Superman
- Thread starter TheMasterOfOrion
- Start date
oddly that does not fill me with confidence. What if Superman was in the mirror verse? Superman vs NCC 1701 ISS Enterprise would be more logical
Not bad. They would still theoretically be as competent as their 'regular' counterparts.
Or, let Trelane be doing it for fun. Mind control to make Supes fight the ship.
All Seeing Eye
Admiral
oddly that does not fill me with confidence. What if Superman was in the mirror verse? Superman vs NCC 1701 ISS Enterprise would be more logicalNah, leave that one to the writers.
Superman wouldn't last two seconds in a pain booth.
mind control in this type of story would be kinda lame, I like my mirror universe idea better.oddly that does not fill me with confidence. What if Superman was in the mirror verse? Superman vs NCC 1701 ISS Enterprise would be more logicalNah, leave that one to the writers.
Not bad. They would still theoretically be as competent as their 'regular' counterparts.
Or, let Trelane be doing it for fun. Mind control to make Supes fight the ship.
All Seeing Eye
Admiral
Why can't Superman just be under the influence of Red Kryptonite? no need for all this mirror universe nonsense.
actually that is half a good idea, but I would much rather we find a way for the two sides to fight because its in character for them, and they are not under the influence of anything, that can be undone or start to wear (not sure which spelling to use) off, that just cheapens it IMO.
of course we are still going to need some sort of alt universe to allow both Superman & the Enterprise to be in the same place, as last I checked Superman is not part of Trek canon, so if Superman is going to have to jump to an alt reality, it might as well be the mirror verse.
All Seeing Eye
Admiral
So not only has Superman got to end up in an alternate reality (Star Trek Reality) he's also got to end up in that reality's alternate universe?
I vote that Orange Kryptonite be to blame. Superman fires his laser vision at some Orange Kryptonite and it causes a rip in the space time continuum.
or Mxyzptlk.
I vote that Orange Kryptonite be to blame. Superman fires his laser vision at some Orange Kryptonite and it causes a rip in the space time continuum.
or Mxyzptlk.
I think once you work out how to get from one alt reality to another, the hard work is done, going to the next alt reality wont be a big problem.
however according to wikipedia Orange Kryptonite
All Seeing Eye
Admiral
^ I wasn't even aware there was Orange Kryptonite that's why I chose it 
I dunno just pick a colour not used.
Mxyzptlk would make more sense though.
I dunno just pick a colour not used.
Mxyzptlk would make more sense though.
to be fair I didnt think they had used Orange Kryptonite either, I just figured I should check, just incase.^ I wasn't even aware there was Orange Kryptonite that's why I chose it
All Seeing Eye
Admiral
In fact why not send the Mirror Universe 1701 to Supermans universe? Q can probably do it.
sounds like a good idea to me, its actually more logical
1) we assume Q is free to travel in all alt realitys, there is no alt reality Q, like Galifery & the Time Lords
2) it really would be ISS Enterprise vs Sueprman, the problem with Superman vs ISS Enterprise in the the Trek mirror verse, is that there would be other ships that could help the Enterprise if it needed it. Whilst of course there are alien races with more fantastic powers & technology in the Superman verse, its less likely people are going to ask about why they didnt help Superman.
God help the Enterprise if it landed in the year 3000 and had to fight Superman & the Legion of Superheros.
What on Earth is this based on? I was never aware Superman had the ability to reconstitute his own matter on the sub atomic level.
If he's ripped apart on the sub atomic level and his molecules are scattered through space like talcum powder I kind of think the guys finished.
Maybe he's thinking of Czarnians, and even then I think it has to be an intact cell. Star Trek vs. Lobo? That'd be messed up.
My analysis of the Superman vs. Enterprise battle:
Superman can outfly the Enterprise. He's been shown reaching the center of the universe (Oa) within, like, a few minutes. he obviously doesn't travel relativistically, since Earth still exists by the time he gets back, so whatever makes Supes go FTL is comparable and dramatically identical to the phlebotinum that lets the Enterprise do the same thing, but the Enterprise is apparently much less efficient at it. Superman is faster than transwarp, faster than the Bajoran wormhole, faster than Tom Paris, even faster than their sensors and their weapons.
At the same time, shields might be effective: they can stop photon torpedoes, and Superman doesn't seem to be able to hit with the power of a Tsar Bomba. However, Superman is so fast, he could enter through during the short-lived "sensor windows" of shield downtime established in The Wounded and which appear to apply to any starship. Alternatively, shields may just distort space to spread out (deflect) incoming projectile weapons, not act as an affirmative wall against attacks. This may be an effect which Superman can weather.
I do like the "bathe him in antimatter idea," but don't know if it would work: Superman has a skintight forcefield as the basis of his invulnerability (unless they've changed that from Byrne's Man of Steel). Hard to say if this forcefield would work on antimatter, particularly if it's electromagnetic in nature. Either way, he could probably outrun an antiproton swarm. With his microscopic vision, he could probably even recognize the particles as antimatter, an impossibility for our own senses, and realize the danger (or lack thereof, as the case may be).
Of course, the Enterprise crew is a bunch of insanely smart people who can pull solutions to the insoluble out of their asses. This ought not be forgotten.
All in all, I'll answer as do when it involves Superman against Batman*... Superman would almost definitely win any fight if he got the drop on the Enterprise, but if the Enterprise went gunning for Superman, they would have a very good chance at defeating him.
*"Batman always beats Superman" is nonsense. If Superman ever did go truly evil, the first thing he would do--before any other planning or action--is kill Batman, and Batman would have no way of stopping him. Superman could drop an asteroid on Wayne Manor. Superman could vaporize Batman during his usual patrol from orbit with his heat vision. He could give him cancer with his x-ray vision, wait five years until he died, and then run amok. He could shout loudly at him and watch his skull explode in slow motion.
Superman should have given his kryptonite bullet "contingency plan" to Wonder Woman. I would suggest Captain Marvel, but Billy Batson is far too vulnerable--and Captain Marvel can likely beat up Superman anyway. Wonder Woman, by contrast, isn't quite in the same strength league, but possesses no physical weaknesses, and is still capable of at least absorbing a first strike from Superman, even in a surprise attack scenario. Martian Manhunter, of course, aside from
being dead
But Batman shouldn't even be in the running. He's also proven not at all trustworthy, or at least competent in keeping his secrets and mechanisms out of the hands of enemies, the Orwellian retard (see Tower of Babel, The OMAC Project, Infinite Crisis).
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3D Master
Rear Admiral
If he's ripped apart on the sub atomic level and his molecules are scattered through space like talcum powder I kind of think the guys finished.
I repeat: it depends on whether the writer is a superman fanboy.
Especially a Silver Age Superman fanboy (which sadly is who run DC these days.)So has Superman, depending on who's handling him.QUOTE]
Yeah, but Superman is fantastical while Star Trek is science fiction. The latter is more grouned in a "reality."
Than a story about a man who can fly and is indestructable simply by being around a bright yellow light.
Superman has his grounding in the 1930s-era of science fiction and even the SF of latter decades.
Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster tried to ground Superman's fantastical powers in some kind of pseudo-scientific explanation. See: http://www.firstscience.com/site/articles/superman.asp
And: http://geekwhisperin.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/actioncomics1-superman-origin.png?w=655&h=884
Uh... did you read that shit? In case you hadn't noticed, but the explanation was that Krypton had a hundred gs; and Superman was stronger, but he was essentially still human. He couldn't fly, only jump, etc. etc.; then some other writers got a hand on him, and they just keeping increasing his power... and see below.
Uh... warp drive is a fully functional scientific theory that actual scientists work on. We HAVE functional transporters, even if it's only for photons.
How does this remotely compare to:
1. Blowing out a star with a sneeze thus proving that Superman's lung capacity is trillions upon trillions upon trillions upon trillions of times Earth's atmosphere and FILLED to that capacity - yet he never even once sucked even a tiny portion of Earth's atmosphere into his lungs, let alone the ENTIRETY of the atmosphere as he should have at least (and killing and flattening everything on the planet in the process.)
2. Being able to hear a gunshot around the planet when it's his loved ones getting hurt in an instant - despite the fact that sound only travels at 340 m/s and it would take hours to get to his ear, not to mention that sound doesn't have infinite energy and would disappear long before it even get there. To somehow work this; sound would have to be intelligent and sentient and when one of Superman's loved once are in danger it would have to think, "Dang, I like Superman, and Lois is about to get a bullet in the head! I better speed up to lightspeed, increase my energy to get to him - while simultaneously warp physics as this would level the city I'm in now, not to mention vaporize Lois - and while we're add it, weave around other people's ears to make sure only Superman hears me."
3. Capable of breaking the speed of light in real space without any bother of circumventing that barrier, just push itself past it with brute force.
4. Being able to take a billion trillion billion trillion times more energy into him in the form of yellow sunlight into him than actually falls on him - which should, incidentally, suck the sun dry of its energy and reduce Earth to frozen wasteland killing everything on the planet.
And on, and on, and on.
Superman doesn't just defy the laws physics, he defies the laws of logic - and by definition defies even fantasy standards.
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^The only thing that ever really bugged me about Superman was his inability to metabolize red sunlight, and the notion that red sunlight actively sapped his strength.
It's all just photons. "Red sunlight" and "yellow sunlight" are going to have photons of all sorts of wavelengths, with significant overlap, just peaking at different frequencies, so that they appear colorful to us instead of white (although try looking at the sun and it is, indeed, mainly white). I mean, we don't live in a world of yellows and blacks. Things that reflect red wavelengths are red, therefore Superman's already swimming in a sea of that horrid red sunlight!
So why does the "red" from our yellow sun have no effect if Superman is hurt by red light, and why does the "yellow" from the red sun of Krypton not give him powers if he's fueled by yellow light?
Beyond this, and maybe even worse than this, is the truly baffling idea that the Kryptonians evolved to have solar-driven superpowers... but not to metabolize the light of THEIR OWN STAR.
It's all just photons. "Red sunlight" and "yellow sunlight" are going to have photons of all sorts of wavelengths, with significant overlap, just peaking at different frequencies, so that they appear colorful to us instead of white (although try looking at the sun and it is, indeed, mainly white). I mean, we don't live in a world of yellows and blacks. Things that reflect red wavelengths are red, therefore Superman's already swimming in a sea of that horrid red sunlight!
So why does the "red" from our yellow sun have no effect if Superman is hurt by red light, and why does the "yellow" from the red sun of Krypton not give him powers if he's fueled by yellow light?
Beyond this, and maybe even worse than this, is the truly baffling idea that the Kryptonians evolved to have solar-driven superpowers... but not to metabolize the light of THEIR OWN STAR.
I'm going to say that natural TK field or whatever bullshit they sometimes say explains some of Supes abilities will prevent the transporter from dispersing him because I just can't accept that he could job to any old rustbucket in the Trek universe. Superman losing to Pakleds just ain't right.
3D Master
Rear Admiral
Well, the redder the cooler the star, the less different frequencies and especially energetic frequencies there's in the "light" it sends out.
The yellower / closer to white the star the hotter the star, the more different frequencies and especially energetic frequencies there's in the "light" it sends out.
So, that would mean, Superman absorbs all the excess energy that doesn't arrive from a red star.
Of course, in real life, this would mean that Kryptonians wouldn't get stronger under a yellow sun - the yellow sun would kill them through radiation poisoning.
You could say that Kryptonians always carry a small forcefield around their bodies, enough to protect them from the excess energy and absorb it at first, but not to do anything of the other super feats.
Of course, in this scenario, Kryptonite doesn't kill Superman, it simply shuts down that forcefield and it's the yellow sun's radiation that actually kills him.
