Discussion in 'TV & Media' started by Lyon_Wonder, Mar 21, 2013.
they should give the show to craig ferguson's horse
Listen, I think Conan is much funnier than Jay. But the fact of the matter was that Jay was basically fired from a job he was successful at (commercially anyway) and loved. He was replaced by a guy who didn't get as high ratings so they asked him back. I don't see how that's his fault or why he should have refused to take back the gig, especially when it would have probably just led to Fallon or someone else replacing Conan.
If anything, it's the suits who orchestrated the change and then panicked when Conan wasn't an overnight sensation who deserve the blame.
Wait... there's still a USA Network? How can one network survive on nothing but marathons of Wings?
Because the sensibility and type of humor that worked at 12:30 doesn't necessarily translate to the much larger and broader audience at 11:30. There is a lot more money at stake and a lot more jobs, and things have to be played safer. Letterman did the same thing, The Late Show is just a shadow of the greatness that was Late Night. But he knew that when he took the job.
Well, exactly, especially considering that Leno owes his whole career of the last 30 years to one David Letterman.
Agreed, it's not Leno's fault, the execs took the short-term view in '10 (just like they had in '92). Leno is in his 60s, he is not going to keep his audience forever. If NBC had bit the bullet, kept Conan on Tonight and rode out the ratings slump, they had a good chance of securing a new generation of viewers. All they did by caving in to Leno was prolong the inevitable, and now they have to try again.
Agree. Conan should get the Tonight Show back now, since Jay did then.
I hope this turns out to be true. I like Fallon a lot. He is throwback to the multi talented Carson as a talk show host, and even though I like both Dave and Conan, neither has the versatility that Fallon has.
Leno, who can only handle set ups and punchlines, is a one dimensional dinosaur (and a weasel) who will hopefully go quietly out to pasture. Good riddance.
Big difference: Leno hadn't gone to another network. Conan's day is done. It wasn't his fault, he got screwed over, but now he's a niche player and it's pretty unlikely he'll have a big network shot again.
I don't disagree with you at all, I'm not saying Leno shouldn't have accepted. I'm just saying that he shouldn't now be shocked by NBC's behavior, it was clear they were snakes all along.
By the way, you've attributed a quote to me that I certainly did not say...at no point did I call Leno an ass or say that he should have told NBC to shove it, it looks like tighr said that. I'm sure you didn't do it on purpose (at least I hope so), but I would appreciate it if you would edit your post to fix the error.
Did you miss the part about the 10pm Law and Order and the 11pm Local News?
Who says 11:35p has such a broad audience that they have to be tame with their jokes? It doesn't stop TDS and TCR on Comedy Central from going blue at 10pm. For that matter, it doesn't stop reruns of Roseanne on Fox at 10pm, or reruns of classic Simpsons episodes like Marge vs the Monorail.
Did you miss the part about the higher stakes at 11:30 making the networks more risk-averse? What works for crime shows and local newscasts doesn't translate to what will work for a comedy talk show, they're different beasts.
The people in position to make network programming decisions.
The tame jokes on the Tonight Show were producing flat ratings and shows that no one cared about. In addition, the Jay Show at 10pm (last I checked, it was a comedy talk show ) was taking all of the good prime guests away from Conan's show.
When Conan found out he was for sure getting fired, he turned up the heat and started killing it with hard hitting jokes. On top of that, he was getting some of the best A-list celebrities ever. The ratings for Conan's final two weeks on the Tonight Show were higher than they had seen in years.
And most importantly, he was actually FUNNY. The way Leno always was until the moment he took over ''The Tonight Show.'' I still don't understand why.
Reason why NBC is willing to get rid of Leno now is because ABC has a late night 11:35 show now, so there is no danger of Leno running to another network.
Fox is still looming, and may have made progress on their affiliate issue that prevented the Conan deal from going through.
IIRC, the decision was driven less by Conan's Tonight Show ratings and far more by the abysmal prime trime ratings of The Jay Leno Show. Honestly, I suspect that NBC would have been willing to stick with Conan except that Leno was guaranteed a $60 million payout if they cancelled The Jay Leno Show within 2 years. Conan was only guaranteed $40 million to make him go away. From a mathematical perspective, it simply made more sense to ditch Conan rather than Leno.
I think Conan is way funnier than Leno too but I have never understood the way Leno gets painted as a villain in all this. Honestly, the main driving force behind that whole debacle would have been the NBC executives that (1) realized that Conan was getting lucrative offers from other networks that NBC couldn't match while keeping him on Late Night, (2) made hasty promises to keep Conan by promising him The Tonight Show within a few years, and (3) made the really ill-advised desperation move to try to keep both of them by giving Leno a prime time talk show, which quickly failed. The scars of The Jay Leno Show can still be seen at NBC today. If not for The Jay Leno Show, they probably would have kept Southland and would generally have a better standing among the creative community for 1-hour dramas.
BTW, I'm always surprised that people talk about Conan as if he's an innocent victim in all this when he basically stole George Lopez's timeslot.
Well, considering how the big networks are progressively deteriorating (NBC faster than most), I'm not sure that means a heck of a lot anymore.
What was so edgy about "Marge vs. the Monorail"?
Actually, from what I recall hearing, The Jay Leno Show lost several high profile guests because the other networks were so offended by the notion of a talk show in prime time that they forbade many of their stars from appearing on it. I distinctly remember that Kelsey Grammer was forbidden from appearing on the show until after ABC cancelled Hank.
But isn't FOX bring back Arsenio Hall?
I mean he hasn't been relevant since his show went off the air in 1994.
this new one won't last.
They should let the Tonight Show die.
Conan should take Jimmy's spot, that was when he was best, not that it would ever happen.
Haven't watched in the last 15 years, eh?
If I recall, Conan was reluctant to take the TBS job for that very reason, until he received a personal phone call from George Lopez urging him to take the deal. Sure, that could have been public grandstanding (much like Jay publicly saying in 2004 that he was happy for Conan), but nonetheless the story was that Conan was considering turning down TBS' offer.
In the Tonight Show debacle, Conan never deviated from his belief that the Tonight Show was an institution, and that he would rather walk away from the show than accept a move to midnight. Going back to 12:35 was a no-go, because Fallon was already there and he didn't want to bump him out of his show, either. Jay Leno never said that he was willing to walk away from the "Jay Leno Show".
It was a subtle (maybe too subtle) reminder that Conan O'Brien wrote "Marge vs the Monorail", as well as several other episodes of the Simpsons, which have gone down as some of the best episodes of that show's ENTIRE run.
Oh god... NBC is fucked.
Seth Meyers is looking into the 12:35 slot!
Worst pick ever.
It would be wonderful if circumstances brought Conan back to "Tonight Show"
Conan- I went on a "walkabout". I traveled the lands of a far away placed called TBS!
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