Mythbusters vs. The Phone Book

[Trekker4747]

Pretty incredible stuff tonight.

Jamie and Adam took to 800pg phone books and interlaced the pages (one page on-top of the other) and tried seperating them (the myth being they're unseperable.) And short of using two tanks pulling at over 8,000lbs of force they couldn't seperate the two. Not Jamie and Adam pulling in opposite directions, not 10 people pulling in opposite directions, not 10 people pulling in the same direction and not to standard cars pulling in opposite directions.

It took two tanks (pulling in opposite directions) to seperate the two phone books. Pretty impressive, but I think Jamie put it best that it was the "friction" between all of the pages but that it was a Chinese-finger puzzle effect going on.

 

[Sephiroth]

what? they didn't shoot the books?

 

[Q2UnME]

Naw, and they didn't blow them up either...

I was surprised that it took two tanks pulling in opposite directions. All in all, a cool episode!

Q2

 

[Trekker4747]

Naw, and they didn't blow them up either...

I was surprised that it took two tanks pulling in opposite directions. All in all, a cool episode!

Q2

Yeah. I tempted to find myself a couple of phone books and try this one out! Pretty darn cool!
I kind of do have one question on it, though.

Jamie suggested there was a bit of a "Chinese finger puzzle" trick going on. I'm guessing what he was going with is that when you're pressing down on the spine of the books you're putting pressure onto all of the pages of the books which is holding them together. So, in that effect, the clamps and stuff they made were helping. They were helping to create all of that pressure.

So I wonder what would've happened if you pulled from the SIDES of the books, a place where you'd have no pressure going on to the tops/bottoms of the pages.

Over on Discovery's Mythbusters website people are pointing out that single piece of electrical tape they had there holding the covers together playing a part.

Yeah. A single piece of electrical tape on each cover is going to hold two phonebooks together against two automobiles.

 

[The Evil Dead]

Haha, that sounds really cool, I hope I catch that episode sometime.

 

[Christopher]

Jamie suggested there was a bit of a "Chinese finger puzzle" trick going on. I'm guessing what he was going with is that when you're pressing down on the spine of the books you're putting pressure onto all of the pages of the books which is holding them together. So, in that effect, the clamps and stuff they made were helping. They were helping to create all of that pressure.

I don't think that's exactly it. I think I have an idea what he was getting at. The interlaced pages were not entirely "flat," not parallel to the direction of pull, but slanted by the interlacing. So when they were pulled outward, their diagonal orientation meant that part of that horizontal force was converted into a vertical force, pressing the pages more firmly against each other and increasing the friction. Another way of looking at it is that when the pages are pulled outward, it tends to flatten them out, which pushes them closer together.

You can discern this effect by interlacing your fingers and pulling them out from each other, as Adam was shown to do when discussing this. Just hold them loosely but snugly together, don't try to press them against each other, and pull your hands apart from each other. You'll find that your fingers automatically press together.

Still, the key factor is the vast amount of surface area of all those pages flat against each other. I suspect we're dealing with Van der Waals forces, the intermolecular forces that let geckos and flies (and the movie Spider-Man) stick to walls. It's the same principle -- their fine microscopic hairs have so much surface area in proportion to their mass that the tiny intermolecular forces add up to a considerable adhesive effect. The fact that the pages are fibrous on a small scale may amplify the surface area even more.

All in all, it's an amazing discovery about such a mundane object. Not exactly a myth per se, though.

And it's always fun when they deflate movie nonsense, though I'm getting a little tired of the shark preoccupation. I'm amazed that silly movie even got so much as the harpoon right, though in context with the other elements, they didn't even get that.

Speaking of movies, when Adam was doing his bit about going to the Discovery site for a deleted scene, he was dressed as Indiana Jones. I'm hoping that means the bit was recorded during the taping of a later episode which will have an Indiana Jones myth, or even be entirely devoted to them. That would be cool. "Coming up on Mythbusters -- will this refrigerator let Buster survive this atomic bomb we're about to set off?"

 

[Starbreaker]

I have to go read a book now...

 

[tharpdevenport]

All these people pay for chains to tow a car behind them, when all they need is some ropes with two phone books connected in the middle.

 

[CommodoreKong]

Speaking of movies, when Adam was doing his bit about going to the Discovery site for a deleted scene, he was dressed as Indiana Jones. I'm hoping that means the bit was recorded during the taping of a later episode which will have an Indiana Jones myth, or even be entirely devoted to them. That would be cool. "Coming up on Mythbusters -- will this refrigerator let Buster survive this atomic bomb we're about to set off?"

I bet Frank would have to pull in a hell of a lot of favors to get an atomic bomb for the Mythbusters.

 

[Trekker4747]

Jamie suggested there was a bit of a "Chinese finger puzzle" trick going on. I'm guessing what he was going with is that when you're pressing down on the spine of the books you're putting pressure onto all of the pages of the books which is holding them together. So, in that effect, the clamps and stuff they made were helping. They were helping to create all of that pressure.

I don't think that's exactly it. I think I have an idea what he was getting at. The interlaced pages were not entirely "flat," not parallel to the direction of pull, but slanted by the interlacing. So when they were pulled outward, their diagonal orientation meant that part of that horizontal force was converted into a vertical force, pressing the pages more firmly against each other and increasing the friction. Another way of looking at it is that when the pages are pulled outward, it tends to flatten them out, which pushes them closer together.

You can discern this effect by interlacing your fingers and pulling them out from each other, as Adam was shown to do when discussing this. Just hold them loosely but snugly together, don't try to press them against each other, and pull your hands apart from each other. You'll find that your fingers automatically press together.

Still, the key factor is the vast amount of surface area of all those pages flat against each other. I suspect we're dealing with Van der Waals forces, the intermolecular forces that let geckos and flies (and the movie Spider-Man) stick to walls. It's the same principle -- their fine microscopic hairs have so much surface area in proportion to their mass that the tiny intermolecular forces add up to a considerable adhesive effect. The fact that the pages are fibrous on a small scale may amplify the surface area even more.

All in all, it's an amazing discovery about such a mundane object. Not exactly a myth per se, though.

And it's always fun when they deflate movie nonsense, though I'm getting a little tired of the shark preoccupation. I'm amazed that silly movie even got so much as the harpoon right, though in context with the other elements, they didn't even get that.

Speaking of movies, when Adam was doing his bit about going to the Discovery site for a deleted scene, he was dressed as Indiana Jones. I'm hoping that means the bit was recorded during the taping of a later episode which will have an Indiana Jones myth, or even be entirely devoted to them. That would be cool. "Coming up on Mythbusters -- will this refrigerator let Buster survive this atomic bomb we're about to set off?"

I think your explanation in the first section of your post is kind of what I was getting at, but didn't explain my thoughts correctly.

I did notice Adam's "Indy garb" in the commercial bumper and though I often see him in that hat the added effect of the jacket and such struck me as very "Indy like." I wonder what possible "Indy Myths" they could be trying to bust if that indeed is the case?

I am waiting for them to catch heck on their website for "littering" with Adam tossing the book's pages behind him into the wind.

 

[Trekker4747]

Speaking of movies, when Adam was doing his bit about going to the Discovery site for a deleted scene, he was dressed as Indiana Jones. I'm hoping that means the bit was recorded during the taping of a later episode which will have an Indiana Jones myth, or even be entirely devoted to them. That would be cool. "Coming up on Mythbusters -- will this refrigerator let Buster survive this atomic bomb we're about to set off?"

I bet Frank would have to pull in a hell of a lot of favors to get an atomic bomb for the Mythbusters.

...

Frank?

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Speaking of movies, when Adam was doing his bit about going to the Discovery site for a deleted scene, he was dressed as Indiana Jones. I'm hoping that means the bit was recorded during the taping of a later episode which will have an Indiana Jones myth, or even be entirely devoted to them. That would be cool. "Coming up on Mythbusters -- will this refrigerator let Buster survive this atomic bomb we're about to set off?"

I bet Frank would have to pull in a hell of a lot of favors to get an atomic bomb for the Mythbusters.

...

Frank?

Isn't that their retired FBI guy who always helps with demolitions?

 

[Trekker4747]

I bet Frank would have to pull in a hell of a lot of favors to get an atomic bomb for the Mythbusters.

...

Frank?

Isn't that their retired FBI guy who always helps with demolitions?

Ah, yeah. That's right.

I thought he was talking about Jamie.

 

[Meredith]

Another demonstration of the "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_der_Waals_force" force.

I am thinking it is the Van der Waals force. the same thing a gecko uses to climb up glass, I think there is a slight enough attraction by the van der waals to cause the actualy friction, because the sheets are not perfectly smooth and flat.

 

[Meredith]

Jamie suggested there was a bit of a "Chinese finger puzzle" trick going on. I'm guessing what he was going with is that when you're pressing down on the spine of the books you're putting pressure onto all of the pages of the books which is holding them together. So, in that effect, the clamps and stuff they made were helping. They were helping to create all of that pressure.

I don't think that's exactly it. I think I have an idea what he was getting at. The interlaced pages were not entirely "flat," not parallel to the direction of pull, but slanted by the interlacing. So when they were pulled outward, their diagonal orientation meant that part of that horizontal force was converted into a vertical force, pressing the pages more firmly against each other and increasing the friction. Another way of looking at it is that when the pages are pulled outward, it tends to flatten them out, which pushes them closer together.

You can discern this effect by interlacing your fingers and pulling them out from each other, as Adam was shown to do when discussing this. Just hold them loosely but snugly together, don't try to press them against each other, and pull your hands apart from each other. You'll find that your fingers automatically press together.

Still, the key factor is the vast amount of surface area of all those pages flat against each other. I suspect we're dealing with Van der Waals forces, the intermolecular forces that let geckos and flies (and the movie Spider-Man) stick to walls. It's the same principle -- their fine microscopic hairs have so much surface area in proportion to their mass that the tiny intermolecular forces add up to a considerable adhesive effect. The fact that the pages are fibrous on a small scale may amplify the surface area even more.

All in all, it's an amazing discovery about such a mundane object. Not exactly a myth per se, though.

And it's always fun when they deflate movie nonsense, though I'm getting a little tired of the shark preoccupation. I'm amazed that silly movie even got so much as the harpoon right, though in context with the other elements, they didn't even get that.

Speaking of movies, when Adam was doing his bit about going to the Discovery site for a deleted scene, he was dressed as Indiana Jones. I'm hoping that means the bit was recorded during the taping of a later episode which will have an Indiana Jones myth, or even be entirely devoted to them. That would be cool. "Coming up on Mythbusters -- will this refrigerator let Buster survive this atomic bomb we're about to set off?"

I think your explanation in the first section of your post is kind of what I was getting at, but didn't explain my thoughts correctly.

I did notice Adam's "Indy garb" in the commercial bumper and though I often see him in that hat the added effect of the jacket and such struck me as very "Indy like." I wonder what possible "Indy Myths" they could be trying to bust if that indeed is the case?

I am waiting for them to catch heck on their website for "littering" with Adam tossing the book's pages behind him into the wind.

Bah, that is what interns are for, cleaning up. Plus phone book pages are so think any small amount of rain reduces them to virtually nothing, plus with soy ink there are no nasty harsh chemicals in the ink.

 

[Trekker4747]

Bah, that is what interns are for, cleaning up. Plus phone book pages are so think any small amount of rain reduces them to virtually nothing, plus with soy ink there are no nasty harsh chemicals in the ink.

Clearly you've never seen what people on the Discovery boards bitch about.

 

[firehawk12]

Another demonstration of the "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_der_Waals_force" force.

I am thinking it is the Van der Waals force. the same thing a gecko uses to climb up glass, I think there is a slight enough attraction by the van der waals to cause the actualy friction, because the sheets are not perfectly smooth and flat.

I thought Van der Waal's forces only operate on the molecular level?

 

[Trekker4747]

I thought Van der Waal's forces only operate on the molecular level?

Have you ever seen the size of the PRINT in a phone book for a large city?!

 

[Christopher]

I thought Van der Waal's forces only operate on the molecular level?

Yeah, and matter is made of molecules. Any two objects have a slight VdW attraction between their surface molecules, but it's usually too tiny to matter -- unless you increase the surface area (and thus the number of interacting molecules) immensely in proportion to the object's mass.

 

[Trekker4747]

Heh. I just tried this on a pair of phone books. Pretty darn cool.