MYTHBUSTERS 2015 Season Thread

[ATimson]

My one problem is that the new main title sequence is more about building stuff than busting myths. If not for the title, a newcomer watching that opening sequence would have no idea what the show was really about.

Is that really any different from the old title sequence filled with explosions and fire and Tory failing to jump the wagon on his bicycle? Both don't do a good job of introducing the concept of the show.

I mean, I definitely like the old one better, but I don't think the new one is any worse at getting the show's concept across. (And fortunately they don't cut to commercial, but instead go right back into the show, where they do get into what the show's about.)

What surprised me is that Adam needed to estimate the set's proportions by studying the film footage. He used to work at ILM! Couldn't he have just called them up and gotten a look at the set blueprints?

He was a contract model worker who didn't even get into the credits, according to his discussions of it on his podcast. I think that if he asked, he'd be playing more on his role as the host of Mythbusters than any relationship with ILM (especially since the model shop where he worked was sold off a decade ago).

It was an okay bit of science demonstration, but I'm not sure they needed visual evidence to prove it moved faster than sound; the whip crack itself is the evidence, because it's a miniature sonic boom. This wasn't testing a myth so much as demonstrating an established fact.

The visual evidence shows that it definitively is a sonic boom, versus being generated by some other feature of the whip as it travels.

 

[Marc]

It was an okay bit of science demonstration, but I'm not sure they needed visual evidence to prove it moved faster than sound; the whip crack itself is the evidence, because it's a miniature sonic boom. This wasn't testing a myth so much as demonstrating an established fact.

The visual evidence shows that it definitively is a sonic boom, versus being generated by some other feature of the whip as it travels.

And while it might be an established that it's a mini sonic boom, how many people are really aware of that fact?

I for one didn't know it until reading in it here.

Think most post people would put it down to just a noise from the way it moves in there area (like when you snap a tea towel) than it going faster than the speed of sound.

 

[Redfern]

Apropos of nothing, really, but I learned about the sonic boom aspect of a whip back in 1980 when Carl Sagan mentioned it in "Cosmos".

Sincerely,

Bill

 

[Christopher]

Is that really any different from the old title sequence filled with explosions and fire and Tory failing to jump the wagon on his bicycle? Both don't do a good job of introducing the concept of the show.

At least the previous sequence had narration that explained what the show was basically about. There was the introductory montage with the narrator saying what myths would be tested, and then the whole "Who are the Mythbusters?" spiel. Honestly, I never liked the line "They don't just tell the myths, they put them to the test" -- I mean, who would just tell the myths? Is there anyone on TV that actually does that, making the statement a meaningful contrast? But at least it lays out a mission statement for the show. The new sequence doesn't have that.

The visual evidence shows that it definitively is a sonic boom, versus being generated by some other feature of the whip as it travels.

What other feature could it be? I mean, I've got nothing against explaining the science of a whip crack, but it's not actually testing a myth, it's demonstrating a well-known scientific fact. It really should've gone under the old "Warning: Science Content" banner (although I always hated that, because it implies that science content is somehow bad).

And while it might be an established that it's a mini sonic boom, how many people are really aware of that fact?

I for one didn't know it until reading in it here.

All the more reason why they should've had more discussion of the scientific principle, rather than just taking it as read and jumping right to the verification.

 

[Trekker4747]

]Is that really any different from the old title sequence filled with explosions and fire and Tory failing to jump the wagon on his bicycle? Both don't do a good job of introducing the concept of the show.

The previous title sequence had the narration explaining to us who Adam and Jamie were, special effects artists with decades of experience, and that they were putting myths to the test.

And while it might be an established that it's a mini sonic boom, how many people are really aware of that fact?

I for one didn't know it until reading in it here.

Think most post people would put it down to just a noise from the way it moves in there area (like when you snap a tea towel) than it going faster than the speed of sound.

The sonic-boom thing always struck me as "one of those things" people say but never made a lot of sense in my mind and suspected the whip crack came from something else, like high-speed contact of two of the whip's surfaces. I mean, when I clap my hands there's a "smack" sound but my hands aren't traveling faster than the speed of sound.

I'm still not sure I'm 100% convinced it's a sonic-boom mostly because it's hard for me to believe that such tiny objects moving just over the speed of sound could generate a meaningful sonic-boom. I mean, whip-cracks are pretty darn loud and significant and it all comes from a tiny piece of a whip moving faster than sound?

Still not sure I'm 100% convinced, but am certainly more convinced than I was before seeing the slo-mo evidence. I'd probably say by convinced-e-ness is in the 90s.

That the whip end is traveling faster than the speed of sound is pretty cool in of itself.

 

[Forbin]

You know what I'd like to know more than whether Adam could outrun the darts? I'd like to know what the mechanism was supposed to be in the movie that linked the stones to whatever fired the darts, what fired the darts, what the source of the pressurized air was supposed to be, how it was built by a stone age society, and how it was still functional 500 years after Mayan civilization collapsed.

 

[Christopher]

I'm still not sure I'm 100% convinced it's a sonic-boom mostly because it's hard for me to believe that such tiny objects moving just over the speed of sound could generate a meaningful sonic-boom. I mean, whip-cracks are pretty darn loud and significant and it all comes from a tiny piece of a whip moving faster than sound?

A jet plane's sonic boom is so loud that it can rattle windows on the ground from thousands of feet in the air. That's really damn loud. Scale that down to something as tiny as the tip of a whip and it's still going to be pretty loud.

Besides, that teeny-tiny mass has enough energy to slice human skin like a knife, so why wouldn't it have enough energy to produce a loud sound?

Besides, I'm having a hard time visualizing how a whip slicing and curling through the air could possibly collide with itself in such a way as to produce a sharp impact rather than just one part sliding across another. And if that were how it worked, it'd be very haphazard -- the impact would have to happen in just the right way, so the crack would be a rare thing.

I think the physics of it depends on the fact that the whip gets thinner toward the end. When you move the handle, you're imparting a comparatively low velocity to a comparatively large mass, and as the momentum of that movement is transferred down the whip to portions that are progressively lower in mass, the velocity of those portions increases, so at the end you've got a very light mass with a high velocity. Also, the uncurling of the whip accelerates its far end like skaters playing, well, crack-the-whip, each part adding cumulatively to the acceleration of the next part farther out. (I think. I'm a little fuzzy on that part.) Combine those two effects and it adds up to a startlingly high velocity at the end of the whip.

You know what I'd like to know more than whether Adam could outrun the darts? I'd like to know what the mechanism was supposed to be in the movie that linked the stones to whatever fired the darts, what fired the darts, what the source of the pressurized air was supposed to be, how it was built by a stone age society, and how it was still functional 500 years after Mayan civilization collapsed.

I'm sure it wasn't supposed to be pressurized air -- probably more some kind of mini-crossbow or spring-loaded setup. And the linkage was presumably a series of levers, pulleys, etc. Although of course it's just movie fantasy and couldn't really have worked.

 

[Trekker4747]

A jet plane's sonic boom is so loud that it can rattle windows on the ground from thousands of feet in the air. That's really damn loud. Scale that down to something as tiny as the tip of a whip and it's still going to be pretty loud.

Besides, that teeny-tiny mass has enough energy to slice human skin like a knife, so why wouldn't it have enough energy to produce a loud sound?

Well, from the reading and stuff I was doing on it, it seems that it's unlikely a sonic boom, in the manner of what a sonic boom really is -sound waves colliding with themselves-, but more likely the sound of the air smacking itself as it rushes in to fill in the gap left by where the whip was. The two are very different things.

 

[Christopher]

^I don't know what reading you were doing, then, since everything I can find confirms it is a sonic boom -- although it's caused, not by the very tip itself, but by the uncurling loop traveling down the whip.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/true-cause-of-whips-crack/
http://www.americanscientist.org/issues/pub/crackin-good-mathematics
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1930/is-the-sound-of-a-snapping-towel-a-sonic-boom

 

[Forbin]

You know what I'd like to know more than whether Adam could outrun the darts? I'd like to know what the mechanism was supposed to be in the movie that linked the stones to whatever fired the darts, what fired the darts, what the source of the pressurized air was supposed to be, how it was built by a stone age society, and how it was still functional 500 years after Mayan civilization collapsed.

I'm sure it wasn't supposed to be pressurized air -- probably more some kind of mini-crossbow or spring-loaded setup. And the linkage was presumably a series of levers, pulleys, etc.

That's the thing - the Mayans, IIRC, had no knowledge of mechanics or springs, and the only metal they knew how to work was gold, and that only for decoration. A mini crossbow is a good thought (even though we certainly saw and heard puffs of air launch the darts), but does a bowstring keep taut for 500 years?

Although of course it's just movie fantasy and couldn't really have worked.

Well there IS that, of course

 

[Christopher]

That's the thing - the Mayans, IIRC, had no knowledge of mechanics or springs, and the only metal they knew how to work was gold, and that only for decoration. A mini crossbow is a good thought (even though we certainly saw and heard puffs of air launch the darts), but does a bowstring keep taut for 500 years?

They certainly had knowledge of engineering and physical forces, given that they designed advanced suspension bridges and a very stable type of arch, as well as cement and stone roadways that rivaled or surpassed what Europe was capable of at the same time. (http://www.theoldexplorer.com/index.php/maya-technology) So of course they had knowledge of mechanics. And it's not they "didn't know" how to work other metals than gold, just that they didn't have access to a supply of iron and had to develop their engineering using stone and organic materials instead. They weren't ignorant primitives -- they were a sophisticated civilization that simply had to specialize in different ways due to developing in a different environment with different resources.

And yes, the Maya did use bows and arrows, so they would've been able to devise some kind of crossbow mechanism. Obviously it wouldn't have lasted intact for 500 years, but that doesn't mean they lacked the knowledge to invent it.

 

[Redfern]

I got a chuckle from the "Last AirBender" episode "Dance of the Dragons" within which the writers "subverted" that particular notion on "Raiders..." In the story, Aang and Zuko visit a city built by the earliest fire benders. Interestingly enough, it possessed design elements vaguely resembling various Meso and South American cultures (Aztec, Incan, Mayan). They assume the city was abandoned centuries ago, which leads Zuko to wonder how could it be possible that a booby trap that Aang tripped still worked! By that night they discover the reason. The city is still populated. the traps weren't primed centuries earlier and still miraculously functional. No, the mechanisms were repaired or outright replaced over the years.

It was a minor thing, but I liked that little bit of "realism" the creators inserted, a possible "gentle ribbing" at the Indiana Jones films they no doubt watched and enjoyed.

Sincerely,

Bill

 

[drychlick]

I gave it a A+ great show I miss K.G.T But life most go on and so does the Show lol l

 

[Brent]

I just want to state, I will not support this show with the firing of the B team. That was the straw for me. I will no longer watch Mythbusters.

 

[drychlick]

But Brent you must understand Mythbusters been on for 12 year and it cost a hack of a lot of money ! so it was for the b team take a paycut or go they pick to go! ! Kari is my fav red head on tv! but I understand that 2 Mythbuster is better than none! have a good night bye

 

[Trekker4747]

In a behind-the-scenes video while testing the whip-crack, one of the tests they did had the whip snapping but the calculated it as going under the speed of sound. So, how could there be a sonic boom if the whip wasn't moving faster the sound?

Again, I think the sound isn't a sonic-boom, at least maybe not 100% but rather just the sound of the air rushing in to fill the gap left by the rapidly moving whip. Which isn't a sonic boom, which occurs when sound wave collide with one another when they're too close together.

 

[Marc]

Finally got around to watchin the first ep today but wonder - when did Adam and Jamie appear on The Simpsons?

 

[Christopher]

In a behind-the-scenes video while testing the whip-crack, one of the tests they did had the whip snapping but the calculated it as going under the speed of sound. So, how could there be a sonic boom if the whip wasn't moving faster the sound?

Measurements can be inaccurate. The calculation could've been in error. This is why experiment demands repetition.

Again, I think the sound isn't a sonic-boom, at least maybe not 100% but rather just the sound of the air rushing in to fill the gap left by the rapidly moving whip. Which isn't a sonic boom, which occurs when sound wave collide with one another when they're too close together.

I don't see how that would be a crack, because the whip's movement is continuous. It'd be more of a swish.

Besides, even you concede that it is actually moving faster than sound. So how is it physically possible for something to move through air at supersonic speed and not produce a sonic boom?

Finally got around to watchin the first ep today but wonder - when did Adam and Jamie appear on The Simpsons?

"The Daughter Also Rises," February 12, 2012.

 

[publiusr]

The bit about a gunpowder fuse being able to burn underwater was intriguing. And the power of water to transmit explosive force is really kind of scary.

It doesn't take much either. In another program (not Mythbusters) an older gentleman from the UK with a shock of white hair placed some primacord up to a steel plate and detonated it.

The plate was bent and scortched, but that was about it.

Then he taped a sleeve of water (sort of like those colored water ice pops you put in the freezer) right over the primacord on another bit of plate.

This time, the blast ripped right through.

That having been said, the best thing I saw on TV this week was the PBS special on Ricky Jay and Inside Man--especially the last few frames with Spurlock playing with the thalidomide--I mean little baby Voldemort: http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2015/01/21/orig-inside-man-morgan-spurlock-robots.cnn

 

[TheSeeker]

Fun episode all the way around. I was pretty impressed that Adam could build a whip from scratch. I also like how they constructed the giant boulder. Simple yet very effective.