My Thoughts on Abrams Trek Movie
- Thread starter Nightcreature
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Why take such half-measures? Perhaps Trek XII could be set on a planet of vampires. Throw in Megan Fox in a skimpy top, a couple of animated animals, plenty of lens flares and watch the dollars roll in!
Plot? Who cares! Call it all destiny - it worked well enough last time.
Spock and Uhura flirted in Season 1 of TOS.
I don't see any huge coincidences in TWOK.
Why did Kirk run into Carol and David? Because Carol friggin' called him up the moment there was trouble.
Kirk was an admiral in Starfleet. He's probably one of the people who approved Carol Marcus' requests for funding, etc (he certainly knew about the top-secret project). It's not impossible that the Reliant was doing its planetary surveys in part to his own directives. When Reliant attempts to have Genesis transferred away from the science team, who does Carol Marcus call for help? Ol' Jim Kirk. So, of course he comes running to help.
As for Chekov not remembering that Khan was stranded on Ceti Alpha (5/6)... hell, look at federation planet names... Ceti Alpha, Alpha Ceti, Alpha Centari, TWO Delta Vegas, etc, etc. Generic naming conventions + 15 years, I'd slip up too.
That's a far cry from being blown out an airlock in an escape pod by Young Spock, to crash-land on an ice planet a few hundred feet from Old Spock, and a few miles from Scotty. Especially when the likelihood of Y. Spock realistically performing such an action is pretty darn low.
Why did Kirk run into Carol and David? Because Carol friggin' called him up the moment there was trouble.
Kirk was an admiral in Starfleet. He's probably one of the people who approved Carol Marcus' requests for funding, etc (he certainly knew about the top-secret project). It's not impossible that the Reliant was doing its planetary surveys in part to his own directives. When Reliant attempts to have Genesis transferred away from the science team, who does Carol Marcus call for help? Ol' Jim Kirk. So, of course he comes running to help.
As for Chekov not remembering that Khan was stranded on Ceti Alpha (5/6)... hell, look at federation planet names... Ceti Alpha, Alpha Ceti, Alpha Centari, TWO Delta Vegas, etc, etc. Generic naming conventions + 15 years, I'd slip up too.
That's a far cry from being blown out an airlock in an escape pod by Young Spock, to crash-land on an ice planet a few hundred feet from Old Spock, and a few miles from Scotty. Especially when the likelihood of Y. Spock realistically performing such an action is pretty darn low.
If you're really worried about Romulans being wiped out - let's say in the future TPTB become interested in returning to movie/TV storytelling in the original reality (not timeline - it's a different reality). Someone can time travel in that reality to stop the friggen supernova. Maybe move the whole Romulan species to another planet that they colonized 2000 years ago. Who's to say that can't happen? If somebody wants to restore the Rommies to their original situation, or something close enough to it, it's easy enough to accomplish.
I'm interested in seeing more Rommies, and this new reality certain has more than enough to keep the fun going for years.
I'm interested in seeing more Rommies, and this new reality certain has more than enough to keep the fun going for years.
All coincidences.
Could and did. So "realistically" the likelihood that he would do something is very high.
Yes, but not probability-busting ones. Kirk's already tied to Carol Marcus and the Genesis Project, which brings down the probability to sane-levels.
Kruge: "So, the Genesis Commander himself!"
Should've said Spock Prime, I guess.
This should be clarified. The reason Carol Marcus called Jim up was because Chekov, under Khan's power, said that the order for the Genesis stuff all came from Admiral Kirk himself.
All still coincidences.
Older Spock wouldn't do such a thing, however this is a younger Spock. Regardless if it's Prime, Nu, blah blah blah.
Perfect! Couldn't have said it better myself.
Anything can be explained if you suspend disbelief. Young Spock was emotionally compromised; this was established in the dialogue. He was unfit for command, and sending Kirk to Delta Vega was an example of this. Kirk also says in his log entry, it's a violation of regulations, blah blah blah.
I don't have a problem with Spock Prime and Scotty being on Delta Vega, either. I actually thought it was a neat way to introduce those characters into the story. Coincidence? Life is full of them.
I liked the movie, as a movie, and I like that it is rekindling interest in Trek. I saw it twice the day it opened, then again a week later, but once I was $50 deep into it, I couldn't go anymore. Then I bought the Special Edition DVD.
however... (you knew that was coming)
I remain hopeful that the crew of the Enterprise will have to go back in time and save Romulus. I strongly believe that the only reason to break timeline continuity is as a plot device that forces the writers to eventually fix it.
Remember when they killed Spock, but then the Genesis effect brought him back to life as a rapidly growing child? They know we like Vulcans. That's why they mess with our heads. From the very first season of TOS it became obvious that more fans were asking for autographed pictures of Nimoy than of Shatner. So the writers started messing with Vulcans.
However, if I am wrong and they do not restore the timeline eventually, I need to ask a few questions.
1. How can Spock have his katra restored when Vulcan no longer exists?
2. If Starfleet knows about Romulus while Kirk, Spock, et. al. are still in the Academy, and they know that Romulus will be destroyed, why can't they just contact Romulus immediately and tell them to create evacuation plans for the coming catastrophe, thereby making it so Nero doesn't want revenge?
3. Without the Vulcan influence, why should Starfleet maintain the Prime Directive?
4. Is it that all Vulcans can have sex without pon-farr, or only half-Vulcans?
5. Is Saavik still going to be born? her parents were offworld, weren't they? (And by the way, two mules can't produce viable offspring. If they could, they would not be mules. The definition of separate species is, specifically, that their progeny can not have progeny.)
Anyhow, I believe the timeline will eventually be restored, and I liked the movie a lot. If it doesn't get restored, I don't know what will become of all this backlog of Star Trek stuff. You simply can't render 30 years of books and movies moot just to sell a new movie. Star Trek is a series, not just one movie.
however... (you knew that was coming)
I remain hopeful that the crew of the Enterprise will have to go back in time and save Romulus. I strongly believe that the only reason to break timeline continuity is as a plot device that forces the writers to eventually fix it.
Remember when they killed Spock, but then the Genesis effect brought him back to life as a rapidly growing child? They know we like Vulcans. That's why they mess with our heads. From the very first season of TOS it became obvious that more fans were asking for autographed pictures of Nimoy than of Shatner. So the writers started messing with Vulcans.
However, if I am wrong and they do not restore the timeline eventually, I need to ask a few questions.
1. How can Spock have his katra restored when Vulcan no longer exists?
2. If Starfleet knows about Romulus while Kirk, Spock, et. al. are still in the Academy, and they know that Romulus will be destroyed, why can't they just contact Romulus immediately and tell them to create evacuation plans for the coming catastrophe, thereby making it so Nero doesn't want revenge?
3. Without the Vulcan influence, why should Starfleet maintain the Prime Directive?
4. Is it that all Vulcans can have sex without pon-farr, or only half-Vulcans?
5. Is Saavik still going to be born? her parents were offworld, weren't they? (And by the way, two mules can't produce viable offspring. If they could, they would not be mules. The definition of separate species is, specifically, that their progeny can not have progeny.)
Anyhow, I believe the timeline will eventually be restored, and I liked the movie a lot. If it doesn't get restored, I don't know what will become of all this backlog of Star Trek stuff. You simply can't render 30 years of books and movies moot just to sell a new movie. Star Trek is a series, not just one movie.
Why would he need it restored? He's not dead. Nor do we know when and under what circumstances he will die.snakespeare said:
How would they know that Romulus is being destroyed? All they know at that time is that the Kelvin was attacked by a Romulan ship. They wouldn't know about the Hobus Supernova until Spock Prime informs them.
Nero is from a different Universe. Warning the Romulans in the New Universe will not change what the Nero from the Prime Universe does.
Why would Vulcans influence be lessened?
Ponn Farr is about reproduction not sex.
No reason to belive she wouldn't be. As you state she's wasn't born on Vulcan. Assuming she the same age a Kirstie Alley, she would have been born before Vulcan's destruction.
Romulans and Vulcans are more or less the same species, so their progeny would not be "mules".
^But Starfleet didn't even know about Romulus in the original timeline, or that they were a Vulcan sub-species. But now they do know about Romulus. And they do know that Nero was a Romulan from the future come to destroy Vulcan and Earth as an act of revenge for the failure of Spock to save Romulus.
So all they have to do is tell Romulus what happened, and the Romulans will save themselves, automatically negating the alternate timeline. Don't tell me the genius, Spock, can't figure this simple grandfather paradox out and act accordingly. It's a disbelief I find very hard to suspend.
p.s. (off topic) My chorus just sang a version of Lennon/Ono's Happy Xmas that I derranged for them. It was fun! Thanks for remembering John! I'm a huge George fan.
So all they have to do is tell Romulus what happened, and the Romulans will save themselves, automatically negating the alternate timeline. Don't tell me the genius, Spock, can't figure this simple grandfather paradox out and act accordingly. It's a disbelief I find very hard to suspend.
p.s. (off topic) My chorus just sang a version of Lennon/Ono's Happy Xmas that I derranged for them. It was fun! Thanks for remembering John! I'm a huge George fan.
They know about Romulas. What with fighting a war with them in 22nd Century they got to know them quite well, even if they never exchanged photographs. The Kelvin's records establish that Romulans are a Vulcanoid species.
Once again Different timelines. Nothing they do in the new Universe will change what happens in the old Universe. New Universe Nero is not the same Nero that travels back in time and creates the New Universe.
I don't think that's an acceptable resolution to the grandfather paradox. How could Guinan tell Picard to travel in time because she remembered meeting him? How could Sela exist? Simple, because the future can affect the past in Star Trek, and there is only one universe.
Even young Spock now knows not to mess with red matter, so that should undo the paradox by itself.
In any case, time travel is a literary device, not a reality. Time is not, in fact, linear. But as a literary device it only has one purpose, as a plot twist. The twist only has validity in reference to something else, the right or correct timeline. So restoring it will eventually happen. Nobody just kills off a main character's mother like that, and just leaves it that way, when you have years and years of her being alive. It is done to create mental dissonance, which creates a desire for consonance, which can only happen by having young Spock restore the timeline and save his mother and all of Vulcan.
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Grandfather Paradox doesn't factor into it. When you crossuniverses its not your actual "grandfather".
There's no paradox. If Spock needs red matter in the future I'm sure he will be very careful.
Two timelines. Two universes. In young Spock's universe his mother is meant to die and Vulcan is meant to be destroyed. There is nothing to change back, nothing to correct.
As you say it's fiction. Characters relatives die all the time. Amanda is not a special case. In the Superman mythos the Kents were dead for decades. Ma and Pa died around the time Superboy became Superman. For the last twenty years both Kents were alive and a part of Superman's adult life. Recently they had Pa Kent die. So yeh, death is mutable in fiction. In one version parents die, in another they live. In yet another only one parent dies.
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