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My Star Trek CONFESSION

Captain Tracy

Commander
Red Shirt
Okay, Here we go,... Deflectors to Full Power,...

Of what is generally considered one of Star Trek's biggest stinkers, I have to make the following confession, and being as this is a serious post, I'd really like to know your thoughts - without the post ending up in a typical 'bash the bad episode' dog-pile.

'And The Children Shall Lead', Frankly, this episode scared the cr@p out of me the first time I saw it, granted I was 12 at the time, but it still creeps me out very badly even today.

I experienced the same anxiety when I saw the Twilight Zone' episode 'It's a Good Life', with Billy Mumy ( I know,.. I know), he was even scarier, like a Gary Mitchell with a 7 year old's mind,... and I also was instantly freaked out by Damian, in the movie 'The Omen', again a child with super-natural powers.

There is something inherently scary to me about secretive children wielding such power, and I find the concept of children - especially if it is part of a conspiracy - with power over adults - a living nightmare.

Some people are instantly freaked out by midgets, clowns, ventriloquist dummies and so forth, but kids with power to affect and control adults,... instant terror in my book.

Also, I felt the teaser was really well executed, maybe as the only part of the episode which played very well, but that scene really captured the 'emptiness of death', as well as the 'mourning mood' very well, in my opinion.

Patricide and Matricide are light-years heavier in concept than shooting an 'evil alien invader' with a ray gun,.. it's a lot closer to home, if you will.

It also really makes you think about all those isolated research outposts, the people who man them, make those barren wastelands their homes as they live out lives - cut off from regular contact and communication with their home culture and extended families,... and ultimately die on those alpha-numeric rocks floating out in the icy void of space.

A very heavy, and very REAL aspect of life in Star Trek's world, never explored as keenly before in a presentation such as this.

Furthermore, the feeling of uncertainty of the future of the orphans and their loss, and the gravity of that loss was also transmitted very well. It was interesting to see the real Humanitarian arm of the Federation being dramatically wrapped around these lost children.

Okay, I know the whole thing slowly goes to hell in a hand-basket when we enter Act 1, got it.

However, the demonic and occult overtones which are portrayed and acted out by the kids - yes, I know the 'I want an ice-cream first-pump ritual' is often slammed - got it,...

but the actual ramifications are equally terrifying, as was portrayed in 'Rosemary's Baby' to critical acclaim.

When we actually see the manifestation of this so-called 'Angel', we instantly recognize it as the sinister, under-world abomination for what it really must be; and as the source of power which is actually controlling and corrupting these unknowing and once-innocent children, knowing they are under His murderous control and empowerment, is equally scary.

Yes, I know, Melvin Belie the lawyer IS the Devil, and a bad actor, and would make any sane person quiver upon appearance,... got it.

This is the enactment of every Sunday School story you ever heard about the Devil appearing as a beautiful Angel, and if you don't think the Bible isn't chock-full of horror tales, well, you may want to re-read it.

So what went wrong?

The original Ed Lakso premise was outstanding.

The tale was engineered with so many intrinsic elements of horror and the super-natural, and all these pre-programmed triggers universal to our culture and instituted conscience with which to generate the proper emotional response by the viewers,...

Was it just the fact that we were seeing yet another " Once again a _____ takes over control of the Enterprise, only this time it's not a powerful alien, or a super-sentient entity, it's a group of little kids doing witch-craft.",.. is it really as simple as that?

So without slamming the thing, please share your thoughts of specifically where and why did this episode fail for you.

Comments please.
 
Good FOXHOT and thank you - Mischaracterisation and Abuse of Characters; citing the handling of Mr. Scott as the example.

Anyone have another example of where this specific episode failed and at what point in the script?

Thanks.
 
Shatner did some good acting in this episode.
His suicidal anxiety was very convincing. :bolian:
 
This episode works just fine for me. Not a great one, but certainly not bad. And Belli's, um, "distinctive" acting just makes him that much creepier.

I came to this episode as a child myself, in the first years of syndication. For a kid, it's wonderfully powerful. So -- for the younger TOSers, at least -- it's great fun.
 
Showing Uhura as completely unraveling at the idea of no longer being young and pretty. That was out of character.

And didn't a couple of redshirts get beamed out into deep space in this episode?
 
I like to think that there was a safeguard in place that just put the two redshirts in the pattern buffer instead of beaming them into open space without the benefit of so much as paper bag for protection, for precisely this sort of situation.

Think about it. To beam someone down to a planet, coordinates, i.e., the exact position on the planet, have to be entered into the system. In this case, there was no planet, so an alarm or warning of some kind should've come on before the two guards even stepped onto the platform. And since none of the children were present, nobody was under psychic influence to believe that there was still a planet underneath them.

So, I just imagine that after Kirk and Spock go charging off to the bridge, the transporter tech flipped a few switches, and pulled the two confused guards back from the pattern buffer.
 
I like to think that there was a safeguard in place that just put the two redshirts in the pattern buffer instead of beaming them into open space without the benefit of so much as paper bag for protection, for precisely this sort of situation.

Think about it. To beam someone down to a planet, coordinates, i.e., the exact position on the planet, have to be entered into the system. In this case, there was no planet, so an alarm or warning of some kind should've come on before the two guards even stepped onto the platform. And since none of the children were present, nobody was under psychic influence to believe that there was still a planet underneath them.

So, I just imagine that after Kirk and Spock go charging off to the bridge, the transporter tech flipped a few switches, and pulled the two confused guards back from the pattern buffer.
Now that's just ridiculous. You know that such sensible precautions would never be approved by Starfleet! :p

Timewalker: ''Showing Uhura as completely unraveling at the idea of no longer being young and pretty. That was out of character.''

There is a bit of a connection to I, MUDD here. Uhura used it to fool the androids.......and us, momentarily.

Obviously, nothing spoils a woman's day like a sudden 50-year-age jump. Not just with Arlene Galway, but one of Charlie X's victims. And now Uhura.....

And she NEVER had a mirror at her console until that week!
That's different - Uhura never actually aged. She just thought she did, while looking in a mirror. Apparently it never occurred to her to ask the other Bridge crew if she really looked 100 years old, or even to check the backs of her hands for signs of ageing.
 
And didn't a couple of redshirts get beamed out into deep space in this episode?

TIMEWALKER - Absolutely correct! Think for a second about the horrific ramifications of that murderous action,... If you think it through it is freaking terrifying!

And yet,... this episode has such an ignoble standing.

So again,... dismissing any of the Acting, what else specifically contributed to the failure of this script coming off?

FOXHOT - GOOD CATCH! Uhura's mirror!

Okay, so when TV pulls this 'Slight-Of-Hand' on us,... and it is BAD MAGIC to be sure,.... not only does it violate everything we know about these character, BUT it also violates the bond of trust as it relates to 'The Willing Suspension of Disbelief',.. which is hyper-critical for a show like TREK.

In a way, when you consider the trust between writers and their audience, and when that trust is not just violated, but done so in such an overtly and ham-handed way, it is damn near insulting,... and violates that trust in an almost demeaning slap-in-the-face fashion.

And just to be clear, when the mirror suddenly appears at Uhura's bridge Station (!?!?!?),... it is UNBELIEVABLE,... as we have already built up so much TRUST about what this world is, what lives where, and how Starfleet Officers conduct themselves on the Bridge,... which DO NOT include make-up mirrors on the Communications Station!

Outstanding Foxhot,

Okay, so we have:

1) Mischaracterisations

2) Violation of the trust of 'The Willing Suspension of Disbelielf"

Come folks, we are making great headway, so beside the acting, where else does this episode not work for you?

Thanks.
 
I thought the UFP flag was a bit rubbish.
The redesigned version used in the films is better IMO.
 
ORAC - Hmmm,.. interesting. You are causing me to recall my first impression of the UFP Flag, even at 12, to me, it looked a bit odd in appearance (dare I say cheesy).

However, I would hate to open the flood gates, to slams about 'Cheese in Trek',.. really the rest of the message board has that covered in spades.

But I am failing understand where you see where this particular prop contributing to the causation of the episode failing on the whole.
 
The kids were obviously possessed by the deceased inhabitants of the planet who wanted to live again. i think that might have been the premise behind why the kids were so evil. Their emotions at the end purged them of the evil spirits and it's leader the gorgon.
 
FOXHOT - I think what freaks me out even more about the guards being murdered via being beamed out into space, is that it is heightened, at least for me, in that children with power over adults were the impetus behind the act,... freaking scary!

Re: NECK PINCH - just another case of bad acting? or a just another violation of the locust of knowledge of how things in the TOS universe operate and exist?? Can you clarify?

So do we all agree, there is no other types of symptom-types, beyond an abhorrent amount of:

1) Mis- characterisation

2) Violating the trust of 'The Willing Suspension of Dis-Belief'

Or,.. is there any other classifications of specific elements which contributed?

Seems to me there should be other types of afflictions at work,...
 
And she NEVER had a mirror at her console until that week!

Part of the console was turned into a mirror as part of the illusion.

Here in Australia, the old age glimpses were edited out, so we never saw what Uhura saw. Until a few episodes later, when the still shot of aged Uhura was used in the closing credits!
 
THERIN OF ANDOR - Is that correct? The mirror was part of the hallucination? I never heard that before, but it is plausible.

If so, we would have just discovered our Third Villain, which would be confusion and misinterpretation brought about by poor exposition.

True or False regarding the mirror, poor exposition is certainly the villian in other less-than-stellar TREK episodes.

Okay, really starting to get a handle on why this episode failed.

To Recap:

1) Mischaracterisation, abuse of characters

2) Violation of the 'Willing Suspension of Disbelief'

3) Poor Exposition

Good contribution Therin
 
FOXHOT - I watched the episode to check,... and I'll be dipped!,.. in all the times I have watched this episode, the mirror IS part of UHURA's hallucination,... uncanny!

If our super-observant friend THERIN had not mentioned it, I would have always thought otherwise,...

HOWEVER,.. as the exposition is so poorly handed,... even armed with this 'new' knowledge, you have to look really hard, to see that only during the cut-back shots (of kirk's butt from the side) you can see the mirror IS NOT there!

Now we cannot account for bad editing or acting, but once again, it supports the charge of BAD EXPOSITION

Compare to how they handle Sulu's "Tunnel of Sabre's" hallucination,.. back and forth,.. back and forth,... good establishment,...

Yet poor Uhura,.. even when she gets a scene,.. she gets the ham-handed treatment, so KIRK's butt is in the way of establishing that the mirror is part of her hallucination too,...

Check it out.
 
I didn't find this episode scary at all, even when I saw it as a child, and cannot relate to how someone would fear it. I'm not knocking on your fear... it obviously touches on some kind of trauma or feelings you experienced in your early childhood, as you mentioned having fear of similar evil-child manipulations in other productions.

I found this episode so difficult to believe on so many levels, that I found it more amusing than anything else. But not really funny amusing, more curiosity on how horribly wrong a Star Trek episode can go.
 
GARY 7 - Right! and so many people feel the way you do about the episode. So in your opinion, Where did the episode specifically go wrong for you and how?

And just to clarify, yes I am personally freaked out by the premise of child-minds who wield deadly power over adults, too true,... but my point was, with such a powerful premise, why did it not translate as a TREK episode?

Rosemary's Baby and the Omen used the identical premise to box-office success and without the ignoble outcome that became this episode.

What are you thoughts on that GARY7 ?
 
... Even the Gorgan is easily defeated by Kirk's words...

Not sure how to classify this one,.. it is a 'viewer rip-off' to be sure!

The problem is the as shown to us - after a 40 minute invest of our time and trust - The Villain, who for the previous 40 minutes terrorizes the crew and holds their lives in his hands, seemingly in complete control and unstoppable.

Yet, when KIRK yells at him, "YOU'RE A BAD MAN", the all-powerful Alien menace dutifully drops dead on the spot,... or DRIPS DEAD as the case may be.

Hell, KIRK didn't even have to throw a bucket of water on him like Dorothy did to the Witch in the Wizard of Oz.

So I guess this is just more abuse of character,... or audience, depending on your perspective.

"What a world,.. what a wicked world,...",... Ahem,.. I meant to say,... "Death,.. Death to you all,...." Yeah,.. that's the ticket!
 
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