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My review of "Kobayashi Maru" [SPOILERS!]

I'm not the biggest fan of swearing as a whole, and try to cut a lot of it out of my dialogue (still have some ways to go...I have at least 10 years of profanity to get out of my system), but one thing I have a hard time with is seeing it in print. It doesn't add to the story,

Agreed. So far, I have written four short stories and 2/3 of a novel. I am proud to say that none of them have any curses. I have yet to see the need for any.

To the best of my knowledge, the reasons so many people use cursing in their writing are:

1. To show that a certain character has "attitude" (think John McClain and his classic "Yippie-Ki-Yay, Muddah-BEEP-uh"). However, there are certanly other, less cliche'd ways to show "irreverance".... (Think Dr. House and his satisfying, ICONIC black humour.)

2. To show how tense a character's situation is. This reason is actually pretty legit, IMHO. Here, a 4-letter word has less chance of calling attention to itself. Still, it's best to tread lightly.

For the most part, Star Trek (on-screen and literary) is able to keep its language in the "mild" zone. Still, The F-Bomb, I think, is hardly justifiable, especially considering how Star Trek prides itself on a good, solid moral code....

I refer to David Morell, the man who created Rambo, and his excellent guidebook Lessons From A Lifetime Of Writing. His advice: "If a passage absolutely demands cursing, be moderate. A little bit goes a long way."

As a writer, you might be tempted to pepper your otherwise "boring" dialogue with hard language, but just remember: the reader didn't pick up your book to read garbage.

but that being said, I'm not going to NOT read a story because of a profanity here in there...

Again, you are right on.:techman:
 
Me, it's not the potty-mouths that bother me so much as it is all the ankles. Don't get me wrong; I'm not a prude, and I have nothing against seeing ankles in ficiton when the context justifies it. Recently, though, there's been a lot of rather unnecessary ankle-flashing, which doesn't seem to serve any purpose but to titillate the readership. Surely a high-minded show such as Star Trek is not the place for this kind of juvenile sex appeal? I mean, look at Over a Torrent Sea - ankles, right on the cover! I'll probably have to brown bag the book if I want to be able to read it in public. The writers and editors would do well to remember that we pick these books up because we want to read stories, not pornography.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman
 
To the best of my knowledge, the reasons so many people use cursing in their writing are:
There are a great number of other reasons. To give an example, when I wrote my Spider-Man novel Down These Mean Streets, there was a great deal of profanity, but all of it came from NYPD officers and drug dealers -- two of the most foul-mouthed subsets of humanity.

Also, when used properly, profanity has a certain poetry to it, as the writers of Deadwood and The Wire proved on a regular basis. One of the finest scenes in television history is from the first season of The Wire when Bunk Moreland and Jimmy McNulty are inspecting a six-month-old crime scene where a murder took place, and their entire dialogue consisted of variations of "fuck." Both Moreland and McNulty communicate quite eloquently with just the use of that one word.
 
Personally, I have no problem with swearing as long as it doesn't go to overboard, and for me the only time this has ever happened was the video game Yakuza. Now to give you an idea of how bad this was, I watched and enjoyed Deadwood, and had no problem with the language used in it.
I can understand why people may object, but in my opinion, as long as it serves some purpose, either to develop the characters, enhance the emotion, give it a nitty gritty feel, ect. I have no objections.
 
Ah, Al Swearingen. Ian McShane was absolutely Shakespearean in the way he delivered that dialogue. It reminds me of one of my favorite quotes pertaining to profanity:

"He worked in profanity the way other artists might work in oils or clay. It was his true medium; a master."
- Ralphie (as an adult, narrating), A Christmas Story

:D
 
I used to react negatively to excessive profanity, but after spending time on this BBS, watching The Daily Show regularly, and hanging around with my fellow authors at conventions, I've become increasingly desensitized to it, and gotten more or less used to it as an aspect of casual speech.

I mean, I thought this BBS used to have a rule about avoiding graphic profanity, but if so, it hasn't been in force for years now.
 
^ I don't recall such a rule for posts, though there was some kind of limitation about what could be used in topic titles.
 
I mean, I thought this BBS used to have a rule about avoiding graphic profanity, but if so, it hasn't been in force for years now.
Psi Phi has rules about profanity, but I don't think this BBS ever did.....
 
^ But who are you to contradict what Rush Limborg have to say about writers and writing?

Ah, it's quite all right, Mr. Leisner. I actually like this kind of "contradiction", as it were. Trust me, there is no way these kinds of things could offend me, because I have a hide almost as thick as my namesake's....:techman:

BTW, I was trying to generalize as much as possible, with those two reasons I gave. Personally, I would put "The sewage-mouth cop/soldier" in the "attitude" category.

Me, it's not the potty-mouths that bother me so much as it is all the ankles. Don't get me wrong; I'm not a prude, and I have nothing against seeing ankles in ficiton when the context justifies it. Recently, though, there's been a lot of rather unnecessary ankle-flashing, which doesn't seem to serve any purpose but to titillate the readership. Surely a high-minded show such as Star Trek is not the place for this kind of juvenile sex appeal? I mean, look at Over a Torrent Sea - ankles, right on the cover! I'll probably have to brown bag the book if I want to be able to read it in public. The writers and editors would do well to remember that we pick these books up because we want to read stories, not pornography.

Right on, Roman!:techman: Sex sells, as far as most people seem to be concerned, but frankly...too much is too much.

Here's an example of sex used well: Ayn Rand's Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged. Sure, the sex senes are...sexy, but Ayn has a point to them--she gives a good amount of character developement here. In an almost poetic way, she focuses on the emotions of the heroine here, and how said emotions flow with their general views of life, and love, and happiness.
 
*looks up, watches the point sail waaaaaaaaaay over Rush's head*

Did I miss something? (rereads Trent-Roman's post) Ah...I don't think so....

I'm just saying that, like profanity, if sex scenes don't enhance the plot, including them is kinda risky...so....:confused:
 
I'm just saying that, like profanity, if sex scenes don't enhance the plot, including them is kinda risky...so....:confused:

The problem is that such proclamations are purely subjective. One reader is a prude, the next one is a free-wheelin' sort with no boundaries. Their reactions to the same material will differ. Who's right? :)
 
I'm just saying that, like profanity, if sex scenes don't enhance the plot, including them is kinda risky...so....:confused:

The problem is that such proclamations are purely subjective. One reader is a prude, the next one is a free-wheelin' sort with no boundaries. Their reactions to the same material will differ. Who's right? :)

Being in the latter group and given it's 2008 and not 1858, I would have to say they (the free-wheelin' type) are right, BUT, given it some further thought, neither groups are right, nor are they specifically wrong either.
 
^ Which is but one of the many reasons why writers tend to write what they want to write, rather than spending a lot of time worrying about what others think they should or should not write. :)
 
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