My Pastor Lied to Me

[scotpens]

Well, I'd say that the case of history is more evident. You only need to have heard it in another language to have doubts.

Especially since words that sound similar to history in the Romance languages -- histoire in French, historia in Spanish -- simply mean "story" or "tale."

Concerning Old/Middle/Modern English, don't you learn these things at school?

If most Americans really don't know that Shakespeare belongs to the Modern English period, then we are truly a nation of functional illiterates.

 

[Count Zero]

Well, I'd say that the case of history is more evident. You only need to have heard it in another language to have doubts.

Especially since words that sound similar to history in the Romance languages -- histoire in French, historia in Spanish -- simply mean "story" or "tale."

In many languages story and history are the same word, which makes some sense since history is just a collection of stories. It seems to me that English is the odd one out in this regard.

 

[RoJoHen]

Concerning Old/Middle/Modern English, don't you learn these things at school?

If most Americans really don't know that Shakespeare belongs to the Modern English period, then we are truly a nation of functional illiterates.

Then again, it's possible that it's one of those things we just don't remember. I certainly didn't know off the top of my head that Shakespeare was considered "Modern English." But I also don't have a clue what the difference is between Old, Middle, and Modern English. If I ever learned that, it was probably 15 years ago, and I just don't remember. It's not really something that I've ever needed to know.

 

[Hoser]

...because the bible says god created the earth and stars, not earth and stars that have other earths in their orbits. To which I answered, "well, the bible says nothing about the planets in this system either. I think people used to call them stars."

They called them wandering stars, it is where the term planet comes from................................

To whom it is reserved the blackness, the darkness forever.
(Was in a Portishead mood)

 

[ThankQ]

Concerning Old/Middle/Modern English, don't you learn these things at school?

If most Americans really don't know that Shakespeare belongs to the Modern English period, then we are truly a nation of functional illiterates.

Then again, it's possible that it's one of those things we just don't remember. I certainly didn't know off the top of my head that Shakespeare was considered "Modern English." But I also don't have a clue what the difference is between Old, Middle, and Modern English. If I ever learned that, it was probably 15 years ago, and I just don't remember. It's not really something that I've ever needed to know.

I didn't learn these things till a "History of the English Language" course, which only English and History majors had to take, a 3000 level class.

 

[RoJoHen]

Well, there you go.

 

[RJDiogenes]

Eh, the Arts & Sciences are my life, especially Literature, and I wasn't especially aware of it, except somewhere in the back of my head; it's an interesting factino, but not really a qualifying point for literate status.

 

[TorontoTrekker]

Is this etymological myth pervasive? Have you ever come across this, or did I just happen to be exposed to this myth more than statistics would suggest?

I just can't fathom how anyone in their right mind can think this to be true: I mean, have they no idea that English actually derive from previous languages? This is just stupid, epic level stupid.

I remember getting into a debate with my father over etymology when I was about 14. (At this point, I'd studied French for six years and German for one - I ended up with nine and five years, respectively, before I went into math at university.) I mentioned that a particular word must derive from the same root as some other word, and he responded, "What, so 'dog' and 'door' both mean the same thing because they both start with 'do'?" *headdesk*

So yeah, some people just don't have a feel for, or understanding of, language.

Then again, my father is also the same person who shows off his knowledge of Shakespeare by rattling off Macbeth's initial speech upon meeting the Wyrd Sisters all in one breath, thinking that's great acting. (At least he acknowledged that I acquitted myself well as Lysander in "A Midsummer Night's Dream"... I don't think he ever came to see me in "The Taming Of The Shrew" or "Edward II". But I digress.)

 

[Capn Flukie]

I'm still trying to process the idea that ThankQ goes to church.

I look damn good in a suit.

I'm still trying to process the idea that ThankQ wears a suit.

 

[ThankQ]

I'm still trying to process the idea that ThankQ goes to church.

I look damn good in a suit.

I'm still trying to process the idea that ThankQ wears a suit.

That's just how my attorney told me to dress for court.

 

[scotpens]

About the Old / Middle / Modern English thing:

I saw The Sandpiper, starring Elizabeth Taylor as a beatnik artist and Richard Burton as an Episcopal priest, on TV when I was 14 or so. There's a scene where Liz's homeschooled young son recites the opening lines of Chaucer's Canterbury Tales -- in the original Middle English. (We know it's Middle English because Burton's wife Eva Marie Saint says so.) You don't learn everything from school.

Oh, BTW, it's a pretty bad movie.

 

[RJDiogenes]

I mentioned that a particular word must derive from the same root as some other word, and he responded, "What, so 'dog' and 'door' both mean the same thing because they both start with 'do'?" *headdesk*

Your Father sounds like my Uncle Joe.

 

[Deckerd]

It's a common pastime of people with an agenda to appropriate words which sound like they fit the bill. Thus history appropriated by people with a religious or feminist agenda. Another good one is the feminist myth that woman is a short form of 'womb man'. I love this kind of silliness.

 

[scotpens]

It's a common pastime of people with an agenda to appropriate words which sound like they fit the bill. Thus history appropriated by people with a religious or feminist agenda. Another good one is the feminist myth that woman is a short form of 'womb man'. I love this kind of silliness.

“Womb man”? Never heard that one before!

There's been a recent tendency to invent unpleasant racial origins for certain words. For example, there's the myth that crowbar derives from Jim Crow, presumably because the implement is used for physical labor of the sort that was once considered suitable only for blacks. And then there's the ridiculous story about the origin of picnic. You can look that one up at snopes.com.

Boy, the things some people will believe.

 

[snakespeare]

I have heard the "his story" thing a few times. But I was drawn to Charles Olson's writings many years ago and he said that history was from a Greek verb istorin, which he said means "to inquire". He went on to say that there is a fictive process to history in which we fill in the details between different events in order to connect them together, and it's not for nothing that history and story are so closely related. That was when I realized that history isn't written by the victors, as the cliche goes, but by those who plant their butts into their chairs and do the actual writing. And I started to notice how much creativity was involved in the writing of history. We like to think they are trying to write the truth, but usually they have a theme in their minds and they shape their history to their theme. So, history has a lot of fiction in it, much as your pastor's definition of the word fits his theme. People are actually swimming in fiction every minute. They even alter the facts of their own lives, even within a few minutes of living it, in order to live with themselves.

Obviously, from my user name you can assume I knew that about Shakespeare and Chaucer. I like to recite Chaucer from memory, but it probably sounds all wrong! Cool Stuff

 

[RJDiogenes]

There's been a recent tendency to invent unpleasant racial origins for certain words.

My Brother once got angry at my Mother for using the phrase, "in a coon's age." We explained.

 

[ThankQ]

There's been a recent tendency to invent unpleasant racial origins for certain words.

My Brother once got angry at my Mother for using the phrase, "in a coon's age." We explained.

At least she didn't start talking about porch monkeys in front of Wanda Sykes.

 

[Canadave]

If most Americans really don't know that Shakespeare belongs to the Modern English period, then we are truly a nation of functional illiterates.

Why? I honestly don't think that knowing the various forms the English language have taken to be that important. If you're doing an English degree, then sure, you should know that kind of thing. If not, why does it matter?

 

[ThankQ]

If most Americans really don't know that Shakespeare belongs to the Modern English period, then we are truly a nation of functional illiterates.

Why? I honestly don't think that knowing the various forms the English language have taken to be that important. If you're doing an English degree, then sure, you should know that kind of thing. If not, why does it matter?

It doesn't, and don't worry about those who say otherwise.

 

[TorontoTrekker]

If most Americans really don't know that Shakespeare belongs to the Modern English period, then we are truly a nation of functional illiterates.

Why? I honestly don't think that knowing the various forms the English language have taken to be that important. If you're doing an English degree, then sure, you should know that kind of thing. If not, why does it matter?

And you being a journalist for your university paper... tsk, tsk.