Well I for one didn't need to be spoon-fed a bunch of exposition as to who Khan was, especially since I already knew who he was. I just didn't know why he looked and talked like BC.
My name is...Khan?
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Well I for one didn't need to be spoon-fed a bunch of exposition as to who Khan was, especially since I already knew who he was. I just didn't know why he looked and talked like BC.
The more I think about it, the more I'd like to see something like this movie. But a la Marvel or Star Wars, make it a Star Trek spin-off movie set entirely in Khan's day, showing his rise, fall, and escape from Earth and a civilization heading towards some holocaust, but sowing the "seeds" of recovery for its more hopeful utopian plan that will lead to becoming a warp-capable member of a larger society. Canon could be changed to make Khan's origins from Britain but, like Lawrence of Arabia, he becomes a force for a different region, assuming BC would come back for it.
But it's not ( at least not in the sense you mean, going by context ). Khan is from before the divergence in the timeline so he should originally have been the same as his Prime counterpart.
Should there also be a movie to explain why a fellow from India had a Spanish accent and looked European?The more I think about it, the more I'd like to see something like this movie. But a la Marvel or Star Wars, make it a Star Trek spin-off movie set entirely in Khan's day, showing his rise, fall, and escape from Earth and a civilization heading towards some holocaust, but sowing the "seeds" of recovery for its more hopeful utopian plan that will lead to becoming a warp-capable member of a larger society. Canon could be changed to make Khan's origins from Britain but, like Lawrence of Arabia, he becomes a force for a different region, assuming BC would come back for it.
In the chaos, Khan and his people escaped Earth in a sleeper ship. He has no idea how history has portrayed him since then, however sketchy the records of the era are. So in "Space Seed" he had to play it cautiously: do these people really know who I am or not?
In STID, Khan has had a while to understand how he's understood by history in the time he's been asleep. So, he's less clueless about it than he was in "Space Seed". That said, he must've been well-known enough for Section 31 to think it prudent to drastically alter his looks (at least in the comic book) and create an alias for him. So, while I'm not fond of using non-canon to explain things on screen, if Khan's looks were altered, that would explain Kirk's lack of recognition of him even when he said his name.
The reason I don't like the comic book solution for his looks is that's pretty serious stuff. It's mutilation, actually. So on screen, if it had been the intent of the writers to go that path, I can't believe Khan wouldn't have mentioned what was done to him to Kirk as he vented.
As far as how he said it goes, as I said above, he's a proud man who's probably identifying himself to someone as who he really is for the first time since he was essentially captured. It had to feel good for him to say that. There had to be a release of great emotion. Finally. The forced charade is over. "My name is: Khan."
I agree. I think he was relishing his being able to use his name again, and perhaps even lord over Kirk the knowledge that he has. It is as much a title to him as Captain is to Kirk.
As for the comics, I don't treat them as canon, and had not read them before I saw ID. That said, when I found out who Harrison was, my head canon became, "They altered his face so he could not be recognized, and retrained him to suit their purpose." Whatever tools they used to manipulate him to such a state are left to my imagination.
I know that I don't watch films like other people do-been told as much. For me, I don't mind plot holes because then my imagination gets to work and be involved and I try to figure things out. It probably doesn't work for everyone, but the fact that Kirk and CO. don't know who Khan was is a bit of an assumption. I figured, since Kirk acted like he recognized the name, then there was some knowledge of such an historical figure. Maybe Marcus required his tactics to be studied by all ships command officers as part of his preliminary war effort. There are reasons Kirk might have know about Khan.
But, that is just me.
Franklin said:
You don't need his looks to be altered for that. Shatner didn't display any recognition of him after hearing just the first name. The TOS crew had to use their computer system to figure out specifically who he was. This is paralleled by nuSpock calling Spock Prime in STID.
fireproof78 said:
I'm not seeing it.
Franklin said:
You don't need his looks to be altered for that. Shatner didn't display any recognition of him after hearing just the first name. The TOS crew had to use their computer system to figure out specifically who he was. This is paralleled by nuSpock calling Spock Prime in STID.
fireproof78 said:
I'm not seeing it.
Eh. I just rewatched it, and I could go either way. There seems to be some processing on Kirk's part of what that name might mean, as far as the time frame, and who that could be. Maybe recognized is the wrong term, but Kirk is definitely trying to puzzle it all out.
Yes, I would imagine he would.
More a matter of his responding to how Khan says his name in the brig. There is a beat of Kirk trying to put all the pieces together of what it all means. Not necessarily who Khan is specifically, but more a matter of why that should be important.
Regardless, just rewatched that scene and it still doesn't strike me as odd. Kirk's response is something interesting, but Khan is just being his superior self.
More a matter of his responding to how Khan says his name in the brig. There is a beat of Kirk trying to put all the pieces together of what it all means. Not necessarily who Khan is specifically, but more a matter of why that should be important.
Regardless, just rewatched that scene and it still doesn't strike me as odd. Kirk's response is something interesting, but Khan is just being his superior self.
I imagine Cumberbatch felt the weight of Trek history on him when he said that line, and felt he had to balance the dramatic moment with the cultural context.
It's touch and go, but I feel his delivery successfully conveys an assertion of identity which is extremely emotional, because Marcus has forced him to wear a new name and even a new face, which was surely a terrible blow to someone as proud as Khan.
(Apologies for convoluted sentence.)
It's touch and go, but I feel his delivery successfully conveys an assertion of identity which is extremely emotional, because Marcus has forced him to wear a new name and even a new face, which was surely a terrible blow to someone as proud as Khan.
(Apologies for convoluted sentence.)
I liked it.
Thanks, guys, just having a Flaubert moment
(in the distance....a horse neighs as if distressed! )
I think there are bigger flaws with the movie than a flawed attempt of using an iconic Star Trek character. Like, for instance, how they changed San Francisco from a beautiful city into a fugly nightmare of towering skyscrapers and a sky that turns the buildings into a gnarly shade of brown. Or, how Khan's starship missed the mark so badly. SF Headquarters is in west SF (there is a shot which shows Golden Gate Bridge from the south, with the tower being seen directly headon - it's on the morning after the attack - carefully watch the video as the shot pans to Kirk), and Khan's starship manages to take out a good portion of east SF. I know the starship was damaged, but, jeez, the way it missed the mark, 
It was mutilayered. To the n00b, Khan establishes that he's a big deal in the Trekverse in how he introduces himself. To the Trekkie, Khan's reveal is a big deal because it's MF'ing Khan. And in-universe, Khan obviously thinks he's a big deal, hence the dramatic reveal.
Brown? Check you colour settings - SF looked amazing during the crash and subsequent chase scene.
I don't think he recognized the name at all. You could basically see the "so what?" look in his eyes after Khan revealed his true identity.
I have moved my question about the haze in SF to a new thread.
SF is over 7 miles in length, from Bay to Ocean. In this video Aftermath of Khan's Attack, 5 seconds in, the Golden Gate Bridge is seen head-on from Starfleet HQ. This is in the Richmond District. This is at least five miles from where the ship crashed. Surely, Khan must have realized that the ship was going off course and attempted to fix it. And, where was he running to?
Khan was a trained soldier and leader in three-dimensional combat. (I am an equal oppurtunity offender. All Earth soldiers are trained to fight in three-dimensionals. Space combat would have more dimensions in it. So, Spock's comment in ST II is rubbish.) He rose to the top by being the best of the Augments. His actions in the film seem a little off for the best of the best. What did Starfleet exactly do to "tame" him?
(I didn't make up the bit about soldiers being trained in three dimensions. Here is a page from the US Army. Virtual Battlespace 3 A line from this reads, It is a tactical training and mission rehearsal, three-dimensional, first-person military training simulation program. )
SF is over 7 miles in length, from Bay to Ocean. In this video Aftermath of Khan's Attack, 5 seconds in, the Golden Gate Bridge is seen head-on from Starfleet HQ. This is in the Richmond District. This is at least five miles from where the ship crashed. Surely, Khan must have realized that the ship was going off course and attempted to fix it. And, where was he running to?
Khan was a trained soldier and leader in three-dimensional combat. (I am an equal oppurtunity offender. All Earth soldiers are trained to fight in three-dimensionals. Space combat would have more dimensions in it. So, Spock's comment in ST II is rubbish.) He rose to the top by being the best of the Augments. His actions in the film seem a little off for the best of the best. What did Starfleet exactly do to "tame" him?
(I didn't make up the bit about soldiers being trained in three dimensions. Here is a page from the US Army. Virtual Battlespace 3 A line from this reads, It is a tactical training and mission rehearsal, three-dimensional, first-person military training simulation program. )
