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My god, the new Enterprise must be HUGE

Jackson_Roykirk said:
If you're saucer thickness estimate is right (I'm not say it is or it isn't), I suppose it's possible that the ship could have a thick saucer, but all other parts are the same - i.e. there's no way to tell if this ship has the same or similar proportions as the TOS/TMP ships.
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Fair point, I DID say I assumed the same proportions.


However, isn't that a guy welding in the upper left of the opening in your pic? If that is a welder, then your 2m sticks are inaccurate, because that man would be huge. I'm not sure the figure at the lower right that you used is a man kneeling.
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I went back to my high def still that I dl'd and rechecked it with enlargement. He ISN'T full kneeling, more like standing leaned forward with his head slightly down. So let's cut the estimate by 1/3, as I did above, that gives a saucer rim of 13m (just over 4 decks at 3m each or 3 at 4m), and the modified L, W, and H I gave to the another poster right above this one, roughly twice the old "canon" numbers.
 
EyalM said:
...your scale would make the lamps at the middle about one meter in diameter, which is unlikely.
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Ever seen a stage/construction floodlight up close? The larger ones can hit a meter across the lense easily.
 
My first impression was the saucer was thicker, too. But it's just so hard to tell with the camera angle chosen.

It might be easier to make an estimate from the layers of full panels making up the width of the saucer. There are five equal layers.

As far as the overall size of the saucer goes, why not compare a picture of Kirk, Spock, McCoy, Decker, and V-Ger standing on the saucer of the Enterprise in TMP to the workers standing on the saucer of the Enterprise in the trailer? That'll give good perspective.
 
darkwing_duck1 said:
EyalM said:
Ummm... I don't understand what you are baseing your 2m estimate on?
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On the UNmarked pic, look to the kneeling figure on the lower right...I made a red mark = from where his knee meets the deck to the top of his head, then allowed a bit on top of that for him to be standing fully erect. I arbitrarily called that =2m (roughly human height).
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I think you are overestimating the height of this man. Is he standing or kneeling. Why don't measure the man head rather the body. I think these 2m are closer to 1/2 to 1m at height.
 
darkwing_duck1 said:
Jackson_Roykirk said:
However, isn't that a guy welding in the upper left of the opening in your pic? If that is a welder, then your 2m sticks are inaccurate, because that man would be huge. I'm not sure the figure at the lower right that you used is a man kneeling.
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I went back to my high def still that I dl'd and rechecked it with enlargement. He ISN'T full kneeling, more like standing leaned forward with his head slightly down. So let's cut the estimate by 1/3, as I did above, that gives a saucer rim of 13m (just over 4 decks at 3m each or 3 at 4m), and the modified L, W, and H I gave to the another poster right above this one, roughly twice the old "canon" numbers.
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Yeah, but what about the guy in the upper left of the opening in your OP photo (in front of the "P" in 'ENTERPRISE')? I could be wrong, but that looks like the upper torso of a welder (at least from the chest up - like a bust).

If that is a welder, then he would be way too big using your 2 m stick.
 
I think you are overestimating the height of this man. Is he standing or kneeling. Why don't measure the man head rather the body. I think these 2m are closer to 1/2 meter and not 2 meters.
It closer to 8-10 meters total length.
 
Its exactly the same size. I think the fact that it was shown mostly in close up is making people think its larger than it is. Remember they used that technique in STTMP too. From the look of the saucer section, its no larger than a modern aircraft carrier, IE: about the same size as the original 1701.

RAMA
 
If you've seen the teaser in HD, you'll notice right at the end of the beauty shot of the Enterprise being revealed in all her glory, there's what appears to be a little fella walking along the side of the bridge module with a flashlight, and he looks about the right size in comparison to the bridge, so the ship is probably roughly the same scale as she was depicted as being in TOS and the original movies - we're just not used to seeing her with people crawling about on her hull welding metal plates in place. I'll accept that the rim of the saucer does look thicker than what we're used to, but that's probably to make the ship look chunkier and more suitable for a 2008 audience.
 
I make it two 3-metre (max height) decks with a 1.5 or 2-metre set of service tubes at the top. Call it a metre between layers and for hull thickness maximum, and you've got a saucer edge 11 or 12 metres thick at best, not 20-odd.
 
In the top-down view at the saucer’s edge, you see a man step across a hull seam that looks to be about a foot wide. If you apply that dimension to the hull seam visible in the bow shot, the saucer works out to be about 70’ thick.

On the other hand, there is also a work light clearly visible in the top-down view. Again judging by the human figures in that shot, I would put the width of the light at about 18”. Going back to the bow shot and using the work lights as a baseline, the thickness of the saucer works out to be closer to 50’.

And one more method for determining the scale: Near the end of the bow shot, there is a man clearly visible atop the bridge module near the left edge. He is bent over at first, then straightens up, turns and walks to the right. He is standing beneath a work light that looks to be identical to all the others. If we assume that man is 6’ tall, that makes the work light 8.2’ tall, which just happens to be exactly 2.5m. That sounds like the kind of nice, round number a 3D modeler would use when constructing a work light prop. If we then assume that the work lights near the leading edge of the saucer are also 8.2’ or 2.5m tall, that puts the thickness of the saucer back to about 70’ or 21.3m.

Looking at my own 3D model of the TOS Enterprise, which is based off the Sinclair plans, I find that the original saucer was about 5.6m thick. This would make the new ship about 3.8 times the size of the old one, assuming the proportion of the saucer’s thickness to the rest of the ship is unchanged, which it may well not be. That makes the new ship’s overall length something in the neighborhood of 3,500 feet.

Even if we take the minimum saucer thickness of 50’, the new ship would still be 2.7 times bigger than the old one, or about 2,500 feet long.

Of course, it’s entirely possible that the ship’s scale was exaggerated for the purposes of the teaser, so I don’t know how much we can take any of these numbers for gospel, but it certainly does appear that we’re dealing with a much bigger ship here.
 
The main thing is if it is that big , does it matter in the big picture? Indeed, i would find it rather exciting if true.
 
TeutonicNights said:
So Pike's one was bigger.
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Oh, God. Let's not go there, again.

It's probably wrong to base the entire scale of the ship on a saucer that's wider at its end. The people on top of the saucer look no smaller in comparison to the saucer than Kirk did standing on top of it in TMP.
Could be this Enterprise is just thicker at the end (IF it is), while the saucer stays the same size.

I mean 3000' long? Over three times the length of the original? Come on. Defies common sense. Would we then expect that in Abrams's universe, Enterprise-D is 6000' long?
 
RoJoHen said:
Patrickivan said:
I'll still wait to see a bit more to confirm that my fears are not being realized here. I don't want to jump to too many conclusions based on this, and ruin the movie for me. The CGI guys may have been still working on scaling issues when they made this. I hope.
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Having the ship be bigger would ruin the movie for you?

Priorities, people!
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Yeah- it would. What the hell is the point of making a Star Trek movie based on the Original series if you're not going to use the same ship? Don't make a new ship and call it the Galactica, I mean Enterprise... It defeats the point of doing it at all. If you change everything, and I don't mean adding more detail or depth, then you're just using the names and nothing more. You may as well call it Yoyage to the Stars.
 
darkwing_duck1 said:
Patrickivan said:
well- it's hard to say with any certainty that the detail shown is indicative of each deck... I hope. But based on the little welder dude on top,I can't even make out if it's a person or robot, you may be right. But if it's a man, then this ship will be a little bigger then we know it to be. If so, say hi to the new BSG- er Star Trek.

Also- look at the image (on the video) at the bottom of the saucer. The bit above the sensor dome looks like the bottom of the past movies' refit Enterprise... At least to forward part of the dome- it could be torpedo launch tubes.

I'll still wait to see a bit more to confirm that my fears are not being realized here. I don't want to jump to too many conclusions based on this, and ruin the movie for me. The CGI guys may have been still working on scaling issues when they made this. I hope.
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I can't be TOO far off, in the annotation free image you can plainly make out at least 3 decks, one of them appearing to be 2-3 decks tall and almost the equivilant of a deck beneath the kneeling figure at lower right.

I whipped out a copy of the TOS Connie layout and assuming she keeps the same PROPORTIONS, using 20m for the saucer rim I ballparked the following numbers for her:

LOA: 940m (3084')
Beam: 400m (1312')
Height (keel to top of nacelles): 250m (820')

(these figures +/- 5m to allow for slight measuring errors and rounding)
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I'm trying to give this image the benefit of doubt, because if I don't, and you're right, then this ship is shit.

But, at least the teaser has given us a lot to discuss!!! Weeeee!
 
It wouldn't surprise me if it's true. Didn't the Enterprise-A have something like 78 decks in ST-V? And that was in a single turboshaft that went contiguously from the lowest point of the ship to the highest. That would not only make the ship much bigger than a Galaxy but a different shape inside than outside.
 
StarryEyed said:
It wouldn't surprise me if it's true. Didn't the Enterprise-A have something like 78 decks in ST-V? And that was in a single turboshaft that went contiguously from the lowest point of the ship to the highest. That would not only make the ship much bigger than a Galaxy but a different shape inside than outside.
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And it had at least two Deck 65s. The Deck so good they named it twice
 
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