Of course! The trial isn't to determine guilt, it's to determine if the defendant is sufficiently remorseful that they should get a lenient sentence.
My DS9 Rewatch Odyssey
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Of course! The trial isn't to determine guilt, it's to determine if the defendant is sufficiently remorseful that they should get a lenient sentence.
Which never happens.
That entire episode happened because of a single line Dukat said in "THE MAQUIS".
Loved "TRIBUNAL". Good story, wonderfully directed by Avery Brooks.
That entire episode happened because of a single line Dukat said in "THE MAQUIS".
Loved "TRIBUNAL". Good story, wonderfully directed by Avery Brooks.
At least on Earth they got a fair trial. Probably.
In Cardassia the defense had a symbolic role, because the accused ended to be convicted anyway, no matter what evidence someone brought into his defense. So why bother if you end up either with life in prison or sentenced to death
I didn't got till that episode yet....as I said I'm rewatching them.... I'll come with an "opinion" later Maybe I don't remember very well....
I remember in Farscape they had a similar trial where Zotoh Zhaan was convicted in a similar way, but with a little help from Rygel the XVI-th Dominar over 600.000 subjects and other friends she managed to save her skin
In Cardassia the defense had a symbolic role, because the accused ended to be convicted anyway, no matter what evidence someone brought into his defense. So why bother if you end up either with life in prison or sentenced to death
I didn't got till that episode yet....as I said I'm rewatching them.... I'll come with an "opinion" later
Maybe I don't remember very well....I remember in Farscape they had a similar trial where Zotoh Zhaan was convicted in a similar way, but with a little help from Rygel the XVI-th Dominar over 600.000 subjects and other friends she managed to save her skin
“IT’S ONLY A PAPER MOON”
“Vic found a way to relight my fire!”
This is an extremely atypical Star Trek episode in that it’s entirely focused on a non-regular, albeit recurring, character. Fortunately, it’s also something of a low-key masterpiece and one of the most successful episodes of this final season. Miraculously, it manages to be both engaging and fun while also dealing with some powerful, weighty themes. If, at the beginning of the season, you’d told me we’d get an episode—a musical episode, no less—dealing with PTSD set almost entirely in Vic’s casino, I’d have shot a mighty odd glance your way. Yet, it works—far better than I could possibly have imagined. While some of Vic’s post-“His Way” appearances have felt a little gratuitous and self-indulgent, Vic’s entire existence is more than justified by this episode alone and, frankly, James Darren is simply a delight to watch throughout. Put it another way, if I didn’t love Vic before this episode, I absolutely did by the time the credits rolled. The Vic/Nog pairing is something that really shouldn’t have worked (you’d have thought Nog would have gravitated to touchstones from his own culture and past), but thanks to some fantastic foreshadowing in “AR-558” and a nice chemistry between Darren and Aron Eisenberg, it really does. I loved the music, too, and the lyrics to “It’s Only a Paper Moon” are wonderfully appropriate.
While “The Siege of AR-558” went all out in its depiction of war, “It’s Only a Paper Moon” is definitely a stronger exploration of the effects of war on the psyche—and it’s refreshingly free of cliche. It’s an excellently written outing featuring what feels, to me, like an emotionally honest and realistic exploration of PTSD. While it doesn’t feature a single battle scene (other than some brief flashbacks), this is one of the most important episodes in the whole of DS9’s war arc, because it explores the very real human cost (or, OK, humanoid cost) of war.
During times of trauma, it’s not uncommon to retreat from the world. I know, because I’ve done that myself more than once. While I’ve been fortunate never to have experienced the horrors of a battlefield, and therefore can’t compare my experiences to Nog’s, I’ve had a far from an easy life, and there have been times when I’ve found myself deliberately stepping out of the world and creating something of a wall around myself in order to give myself the space and time to heal. The problem is, when it comes time to step back out into the world, you find yourself hesitant because, frankly, it can be damn scary putting yourself on the line again. That’s maybe why I’ve always related to this story so much and, particularly, the episode’s emotional climax where Nog breaks down and confesses how he’s truly feeling. Life is scary and bad things can and do happen to people. Vic’s response is perfectly scripted and delivered: you have to get back in the game and take your chances, because if you don’t, if you keep hiding away, a part of you slowly dies until you become, as Vic says, as hollow as a hologram. That scene features a tour de force performance by the late Aron Eisenberg, even more powerful than his memorable scene with Sisko in “Heart of Stone”. It’s just beautifully written, performed and directed and will forever be one of the most powerful and relatable scenes in all of Star Trek; one that’s raw and incredibly honest while at the same time inspiring and heart-warming.
The episode is engaging from the very start and captivating throughout. I loved spending more time in Vic’s world (and I speak as someone who is generally fed up of holodeck episodes). Darren steals just about every scene he’s in with his charisma, yet I appreciated his low-key, understated style. While many other actors in this role may have mugged for the camera and gone overboard, I appreciate Darren’s restraint. He’s just so natural, and that’s pivotal to the character—and the episode’s—success. I also love how we get to see Vic grow in this episode, how his friendship with Nog has a positive effect on both of them. It’s quietly touching seeing him enjoy the experience of living like a regular person, and Nog’s parting gift—making sure that Vic’s program is left permanently running—is a genuinely joyful moment.
Moving on, I find it interesting that while no less than two Trek series have featured main characters who were counsellors, the writing again suggests that the writers had little regard for professional counsellors or psychologists. Whereas in TNG, Guinan was the “natural” ship’s counsellor as opposed to well-meaning Troi, Vic effortlessly usurps Ezri here, I guess because he’s not TRYING to fix Nog. While Ezri generally comes across as inept as she is earnest, she does get one scene in which to shine: specifically, the moment where she employs a bit of well-intentioned manipulation in order to make Vic realise that Nog can’t stay in the holosuite for the rest of his life. It’s a great moment, and leads up to the episode’s brilliant climax. Also, shout-out to how restrained and wonderful Rom and Leeta are in this episode, acting exactly as concerned parents would (except maybe the “My son’s a one-legged crazy person!!” bit). Jake’s role is less effective and it saddens me that this is perhaps the biggest role he’ll get ALL SEASON. His frustration at Nog is certainly understandable, but, sadly, he comes across as just a bit of a dick to begin with—and so does Nog, of course, although he has rather more reason.
If I’m going to nitpick it’s only to lament the lack of tech we so often see in DS9. The internet was already a huge thing in 1998, so I’m not sure why the writers never imagined that music would be be accessible online. In fact, they barely seem to HAVE an “online”. Music seems to only exist in data rods, hence Jake tells Nog that if he wants to hear Vic again he’ll have to go to the holosuite. Even more bizarrely, Vic was actually responsible for making data rods of his music for Bashir a couple of episodes ago. It’s all very quaint and another example of real-life technology overtaking Trek technology. It would be churlish, however, to let such minor criticisms impact an otherwise flawless episode. It’s just a beautiful character piece, insightful, heartfelt, moving and uplifting. Always a joy to watch. Rating: 10
“Vic found a way to relight my fire!”
This is an extremely atypical Star Trek episode in that it’s entirely focused on a non-regular, albeit recurring, character. Fortunately, it’s also something of a low-key masterpiece and one of the most successful episodes of this final season. Miraculously, it manages to be both engaging and fun while also dealing with some powerful, weighty themes. If, at the beginning of the season, you’d told me we’d get an episode—a musical episode, no less—dealing with PTSD set almost entirely in Vic’s casino, I’d have shot a mighty odd glance your way. Yet, it works—far better than I could possibly have imagined. While some of Vic’s post-“His Way” appearances have felt a little gratuitous and self-indulgent, Vic’s entire existence is more than justified by this episode alone and, frankly, James Darren is simply a delight to watch throughout. Put it another way, if I didn’t love Vic before this episode, I absolutely did by the time the credits rolled. The Vic/Nog pairing is something that really shouldn’t have worked (you’d have thought Nog would have gravitated to touchstones from his own culture and past), but thanks to some fantastic foreshadowing in “AR-558” and a nice chemistry between Darren and Aron Eisenberg, it really does. I loved the music, too, and the lyrics to “It’s Only a Paper Moon” are wonderfully appropriate.
While “The Siege of AR-558” went all out in its depiction of war, “It’s Only a Paper Moon” is definitely a stronger exploration of the effects of war on the psyche—and it’s refreshingly free of cliche. It’s an excellently written outing featuring what feels, to me, like an emotionally honest and realistic exploration of PTSD. While it doesn’t feature a single battle scene (other than some brief flashbacks), this is one of the most important episodes in the whole of DS9’s war arc, because it explores the very real human cost (or, OK, humanoid cost) of war.
During times of trauma, it’s not uncommon to retreat from the world. I know, because I’ve done that myself more than once. While I’ve been fortunate never to have experienced the horrors of a battlefield, and therefore can’t compare my experiences to Nog’s, I’ve had a far from an easy life, and there have been times when I’ve found myself deliberately stepping out of the world and creating something of a wall around myself in order to give myself the space and time to heal. The problem is, when it comes time to step back out into the world, you find yourself hesitant because, frankly, it can be damn scary putting yourself on the line again. That’s maybe why I’ve always related to this story so much and, particularly, the episode’s emotional climax where Nog breaks down and confesses how he’s truly feeling. Life is scary and bad things can and do happen to people. Vic’s response is perfectly scripted and delivered: you have to get back in the game and take your chances, because if you don’t, if you keep hiding away, a part of you slowly dies until you become, as Vic says, as hollow as a hologram. That scene features a tour de force performance by the late Aron Eisenberg, even more powerful than his memorable scene with Sisko in “Heart of Stone”. It’s just beautifully written, performed and directed and will forever be one of the most powerful and relatable scenes in all of Star Trek; one that’s raw and incredibly honest while at the same time inspiring and heart-warming.
The episode is engaging from the very start and captivating throughout. I loved spending more time in Vic’s world (and I speak as someone who is generally fed up of holodeck episodes). Darren steals just about every scene he’s in with his charisma, yet I appreciated his low-key, understated style. While many other actors in this role may have mugged for the camera and gone overboard, I appreciate Darren’s restraint. He’s just so natural, and that’s pivotal to the character—and the episode’s—success. I also love how we get to see Vic grow in this episode, how his friendship with Nog has a positive effect on both of them. It’s quietly touching seeing him enjoy the experience of living like a regular person, and Nog’s parting gift—making sure that Vic’s program is left permanently running—is a genuinely joyful moment.
Moving on, I find it interesting that while no less than two Trek series have featured main characters who were counsellors, the writing again suggests that the writers had little regard for professional counsellors or psychologists. Whereas in TNG, Guinan was the “natural” ship’s counsellor as opposed to well-meaning Troi, Vic effortlessly usurps Ezri here, I guess because he’s not TRYING to fix Nog. While Ezri generally comes across as inept as she is earnest, she does get one scene in which to shine: specifically, the moment where she employs a bit of well-intentioned manipulation in order to make Vic realise that Nog can’t stay in the holosuite for the rest of his life. It’s a great moment, and leads up to the episode’s brilliant climax. Also, shout-out to how restrained and wonderful Rom and Leeta are in this episode, acting exactly as concerned parents would (except maybe the “My son’s a one-legged crazy person!!” bit). Jake’s role is less effective and it saddens me that this is perhaps the biggest role he’ll get ALL SEASON. His frustration at Nog is certainly understandable, but, sadly, he comes across as just a bit of a dick to begin with—and so does Nog, of course, although he has rather more reason.
If I’m going to nitpick it’s only to lament the lack of tech we so often see in DS9. The internet was already a huge thing in 1998, so I’m not sure why the writers never imagined that music would be be accessible online. In fact, they barely seem to HAVE an “online”. Music seems to only exist in data rods, hence Jake tells Nog that if he wants to hear Vic again he’ll have to go to the holosuite. Even more bizarrely, Vic was actually responsible for making data rods of his music for Bashir a couple of episodes ago. It’s all very quaint and another example of real-life technology overtaking Trek technology. It would be churlish, however, to let such minor criticisms impact an otherwise flawless episode. It’s just a beautiful character piece, insightful, heartfelt, moving and uplifting. Always a joy to watch. Rating: 10
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If you don’t watch 3, though, you’ll miss Terry Farrell in the lead part (aside from Pinhead). I saw it back in the 90’s. But, yeah, not my usual genre at all. I couldn’t watch the Saw movies if I tried.
Great review, poignant episode with moving performances by Eisenberg and Darren. A bit strange that Nog is allowed to stay wherever he wants for rehab. Fun to see how Vic is more effective in helping him recover, than Ezri or anyone else.
Apparently a number of Viet Nam veterans praised the story, saying it was true to their experience, helped them. Loved Errol Flynn’s lionhead cane/lighter.
Apparently a number of Viet Nam veterans praised the story, saying it was true to their experience, helped them. Loved Errol Flynn’s lionhead cane/lighter.
Great review, moving episode. It raises however some trivial questions like. Since we've been told that holodeck booze is not real booze. I quote Vic himself on this: "This is the holodeck. It's not real booze." or something to that effect. Anyway, I wonder if holodeck food is real food, or something else. Also, I suppose that they have toilet facilities there... Sometimes they talk about waste extraction... I wonder if that includes the holosuite (deck suite whatever)... The clothes don't disappear after you've left the holosuite, at least not those you're wearing... The rest is... disintegrated. I don't know about you but I wouldn't feel safe in an environment that can disintegrate "real" matter just like that and that occasionally malfunctions ("Our Man Bashir")... What if it decides to disintegrate me???
Another great review, and a great episode.
To me, Nog healing himself using some Ferengi cultural tradition would have been out of character. He rejected a lot of Ferengi ways of doing things way back when he decided to go to Starfleet Academy, and for good reasons - Ferengi ways weren't making Quark any more than a mediocre success, and Rom, if he hadn't joined O'Brien's engineering group, would have been second fiddle to Quark his whole life, and not because Rom wasn't smart either.
Maybe the data rods are the final solution to music "piracy" and can't be duplicated using average person's equipment. Worf has his opera collection on data rods too - the rods could be loaned to someone else, but they said if someone (Jadzia) lost the rod, Worf wouldn't have that music any more.
Holodeck food must be somewhat real, or Nog couldn't have lived on it for several weeks.
A lot of the time people going into the holosuite are already wearing costumes for the activity: O'Brien and Bashir in coonskin caps or WW II aviator suits, Kira and Jadzia in the renaissance Arthurian fantasy dresses. And those clothes didn't just vanish. I think the holosuite will put you in period clothes if it's been programmed that way, and those clothes revert to what you're really wearing when you leave the holosuite, but dedicated fans can get their own real clothes made and those don't disappear when you leave the holosuite.
At least the DS9 holosuite didn't actually kill anybody. But it might give you a Russian accent you'd never live down.
To me, Nog healing himself using some Ferengi cultural tradition would have been out of character. He rejected a lot of Ferengi ways of doing things way back when he decided to go to Starfleet Academy, and for good reasons - Ferengi ways weren't making Quark any more than a mediocre success, and Rom, if he hadn't joined O'Brien's engineering group, would have been second fiddle to Quark his whole life, and not because Rom wasn't smart either.
Maybe the data rods are the final solution to music "piracy" and can't be duplicated using average person's equipment. Worf has his opera collection on data rods too - the rods could be loaned to someone else, but they said if someone (Jadzia) lost the rod, Worf wouldn't have that music any more.
Holodeck food must be somewhat real, or Nog couldn't have lived on it for several weeks.
A lot of the time people going into the holosuite are already wearing costumes for the activity: O'Brien and Bashir in coonskin caps or WW II aviator suits, Kira and Jadzia in the renaissance Arthurian fantasy dresses. And those clothes didn't just vanish. I think the holosuite will put you in period clothes if it's been programmed that way, and those clothes revert to what you're really wearing when you leave the holosuite, but dedicated fans can get their own real clothes made and those don't disappear when you leave the holosuite.
At least the DS9 holosuite didn't actually kill anybody. But it might give you a Russian accent you'd never live down.
This is ultimately where I land with Vic Fontaine: James Darren played the role with great naturalness, making the holographic world seem more real than in other episodes.
Audiophiles are weeping.
But when he left again, he was back in his uniform.
The holosuites are amazingly skilled at illusion. They can make you appear to be wearing black tie, when you're actually still wearing the uniform.
I assume both are real as in replicated, but the booze was synthahol unless the user specifies otherwize.
Why would any one care about that in a moneyless society?
“PRODIGAL DAUGHTER”
When getting side-eye from your mom basically epitomises your relationship...
Well, what a complete waste of forty-five minutes that was. With the clock ticking, I’ve no idea why the writers felt THIS was a story in any way worth telling. It combines some middle-of-the road soap opera schtick with a follow-up to last season’s “Honor Among Thieves” that I’m sure precisely no one was itching to see. Worse, this is the season’s only O’Brien centred episode (unless you count “Extreme Measures”) and it’s extremely sad to see the talented Colm Meaney sidelined in favour of Ezri’s family melodrama.
O’Brien’s search for Marika Bilby could have been interesting had it not all happened off-screen, with the writers expecting us to be emotionally invested in a woman we never see and have only heard mentioned in passing. I also find it hard to believe that Miles would go off as a one-man police squad searching for a woman he barely knows, forgetting that he has a wife and kids of his own and that, oh, we’re still in the middle of a cataclysmic war. Sadly, the whole affair is half-baked, dull and reliant on the enormous coincidence that Bilby’s widow just happened to be connected with Ezri’s family. Small universe syndrome or what? There’s also no mention of the Bilby kids, which I find an inexplicable oversight.
The episode primarily focuses on the Ezri family dynamics, with mixed results. Leigh Taylor-Young is fine as the larger than life, domineering matriarch Yanas, who conducts her family the same way she runs her business—from behind a desk. Unfortunately, Mikael Salazar is decidedly wooden as Ezri’s older brother, Janel, although Kevin Rahm gives a solid performance as her younger, troubled brother, Norvo. Rahm and Nicole deBoer share a nice chemistry and the episode does a decent job exploring the dysfunctional relationship between mother and son—although there’s little in the way of subtlety, as the episode takes more of a sledgehammer approach.
The twist, that Norvo killed Marika Bilby, is unexpected, although, frankly, I’d kind of checked out of the episode by that point as it was such a disengaging plod to actually get to that point. Again, however, the ending casts all subtlety out the window as Ezri labours the point over and over again that it was actually her mother who was the real killer due to her constant belittling of Norvo. I’m sorry, but while nurture definitely plays a huge role in our psychological development, Norvo is still an adult and responsible for his own actions. You simply can’t pin unfortunate homicidal lapses on your mother’s overbearing nature. If that were so, we’d have seen Deanna Troi going about killing people left, right and centre.
Unfortunately, despite some decent moments between Ezri and her family, I generally found this episode boring. It’s just not a story I felt needed to be told. I also began to realise just how weak Ezri actually is as a character. Nicole deBoer actually does a good job here and is engaging throughout, but there’s no getting away from the fact that Ezri simply isn’t that interesting. The character’s central gimmick is that she’s confused by having different lifetimes of experience and has a tendency to blather. That’s about it. She’s something of a one-trick pony, because there’s simply not much else to her. Shouldn’t we be seeing a little more of Dax in her by now? Admittedly, it took the writers a good season and a half to find the sweet spot for Jadzia’s characterisation and she was equally weak during her first season, but it’s unfortunate so much of the final season is devoted to what is essentially a rather one-note character—and I’m sad to say that, unlike Terry Farrell, deBoer exhibits little chemistry with the rest of the cast.
I do feel that at this late point in the show’s run, our time would be better spent on our existing—and clearly more dynamic—characters. As our annual “torture O’Brien” episode, this is frankly an insult to the character, and actor. The Tegan family melodrama is passable soap opera fare, but little more and the Orion Syndicate continues to be nothing but a big snooze. I don’t think Jadzia’s family got so much as a mention throughout her six years on the show, yet after a mere ten episodes, Ezri somehow warrants a family reunion. Anyway, I don’t have anything more to say about this one. It bored me watching it and it bores me even thinking about it. It’s not offensively bad as Trek can often be, but it is rather a misbegotten waste. Rating: 4
When getting side-eye from your mom basically epitomises your relationship...
Well, what a complete waste of forty-five minutes that was. With the clock ticking, I’ve no idea why the writers felt THIS was a story in any way worth telling. It combines some middle-of-the road soap opera schtick with a follow-up to last season’s “Honor Among Thieves” that I’m sure precisely no one was itching to see. Worse, this is the season’s only O’Brien centred episode (unless you count “Extreme Measures”) and it’s extremely sad to see the talented Colm Meaney sidelined in favour of Ezri’s family melodrama.
O’Brien’s search for Marika Bilby could have been interesting had it not all happened off-screen, with the writers expecting us to be emotionally invested in a woman we never see and have only heard mentioned in passing. I also find it hard to believe that Miles would go off as a one-man police squad searching for a woman he barely knows, forgetting that he has a wife and kids of his own and that, oh, we’re still in the middle of a cataclysmic war. Sadly, the whole affair is half-baked, dull and reliant on the enormous coincidence that Bilby’s widow just happened to be connected with Ezri’s family. Small universe syndrome or what? There’s also no mention of the Bilby kids, which I find an inexplicable oversight.
The episode primarily focuses on the Ezri family dynamics, with mixed results. Leigh Taylor-Young is fine as the larger than life, domineering matriarch Yanas, who conducts her family the same way she runs her business—from behind a desk. Unfortunately, Mikael Salazar is decidedly wooden as Ezri’s older brother, Janel, although Kevin Rahm gives a solid performance as her younger, troubled brother, Norvo. Rahm and Nicole deBoer share a nice chemistry and the episode does a decent job exploring the dysfunctional relationship between mother and son—although there’s little in the way of subtlety, as the episode takes more of a sledgehammer approach.
The twist, that Norvo killed Marika Bilby, is unexpected, although, frankly, I’d kind of checked out of the episode by that point as it was such a disengaging plod to actually get to that point. Again, however, the ending casts all subtlety out the window as Ezri labours the point over and over again that it was actually her mother who was the real killer due to her constant belittling of Norvo. I’m sorry, but while nurture definitely plays a huge role in our psychological development, Norvo is still an adult and responsible for his own actions. You simply can’t pin unfortunate homicidal lapses on your mother’s overbearing nature. If that were so, we’d have seen Deanna Troi going about killing people left, right and centre.
Unfortunately, despite some decent moments between Ezri and her family, I generally found this episode boring. It’s just not a story I felt needed to be told. I also began to realise just how weak Ezri actually is as a character. Nicole deBoer actually does a good job here and is engaging throughout, but there’s no getting away from the fact that Ezri simply isn’t that interesting. The character’s central gimmick is that she’s confused by having different lifetimes of experience and has a tendency to blather. That’s about it. She’s something of a one-trick pony, because there’s simply not much else to her. Shouldn’t we be seeing a little more of Dax in her by now? Admittedly, it took the writers a good season and a half to find the sweet spot for Jadzia’s characterisation and she was equally weak during her first season, but it’s unfortunate so much of the final season is devoted to what is essentially a rather one-note character—and I’m sad to say that, unlike Terry Farrell, deBoer exhibits little chemistry with the rest of the cast.
I do feel that at this late point in the show’s run, our time would be better spent on our existing—and clearly more dynamic—characters. As our annual “torture O’Brien” episode, this is frankly an insult to the character, and actor. The Tegan family melodrama is passable soap opera fare, but little more and the Orion Syndicate continues to be nothing but a big snooze. I don’t think Jadzia’s family got so much as a mention throughout her six years on the show, yet after a mere ten episodes, Ezri somehow warrants a family reunion. Anyway, I don’t have anything more to say about this one. It bored me watching it and it bores me even thinking about it. It’s not offensively bad as Trek can often be, but it is rather a misbegotten waste. Rating: 4
With the holosuite/deck it’s best not to overthink it, because it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. It’s basically magic. I never understood how different characters could be in completely different parts of a simulation unless the simulation was actually fed directly into their brains. I assume that actual food can be created as per the replicator technology, and the same for clothes. As for poop....it’s probably best not to think about bodily secretions when it comes to the holosuites.
Yes, "Prodigal Daughter" was a mess, the writers and producers admitted it was cobbled together at the last minute, the weakest episode of the season, and apologized to Nicole deBoer. I was surprised Leigh Taylor Young is the older sister of Dey Young, who played Arissa earlier.
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Loved the review, hated the episode. True, this episode is stupid and Erzi blaming her brother's crime on her mother is completely inappropriate. What a poor excuse for a counselor! Her brother is a creep and IMO a hundred percent responsible for his actions and then some. What was his excuse for killing that woman? Granted she wasn't very sympathetic but that's no reason for killing someone and it's not like he was worried about his next meal! I agree with O'Brien, he got away easy. He's nothing but a spoiled brat, he could have left his mother and tried to make it on his own. She may be domineering but she's also honest and (evidently) tried to teach honesty to her asshole of a son. The whole episode is completely forgettable but it's a masterpiece compared to what follows...
