Mulgrew as Cleopatra. Any thoughts?
- Thread starter JanewayRulz!
- Start date
It was only considered racist because people don't know their history. It's a fact that Cleo was pale complected/white skinned. It is what it is. It sucked then. It sucks now, but that's what actually happened.
What about casting an African-American to play Hamlet? Personally, I think if the acting is good enough you'll stop noticing after the opening scene.
As for Cleopatra, at the time the play was written women weren't allowed to act on stage. Chances are the first person to play the character was a man. How's that for realism?
As for Cleopatra, at the time the play was written women weren't allowed to act on stage. Chances are the first person to play the character was a man. How's that for realism?
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Seriously?
Cleopatra was a real person, Hamlet is not.
In other words, there's nothing from stopping us now that we know better than casting someone racially and gender accurate. It's not like this issue of "racebending" hasn't been a big deal lately either. "Prince of Persia" & "Last Airbender" made headlines due to issues like this of casting the wrong race.
Cleopatra was a real person, Hamlet is not.
In other words, there's nothing from stopping us now that we know better than casting someone racially and gender accurate. It's not like this issue of "racebending" hasn't been a big deal lately either. "Prince of Persia" & "Last Airbender" made headlines due to issues like this of casting the wrong race.
I'm a light skinned toned African American.
Many would describe my complexion the same way.
I know native Greeks darker than I am.
I'm just sayin'.
I'm a light skinned toned African American.
Many would describe my complexion the same way.
I know native Greeks darker than I am.
I'm just sayin'.
Greeks are still lighter skinned than Africans, on the whole.
Actually, it would be more appropriate to say they are casting an African American to play the Roman Marc Antony in this play.
Going back to the "racist" casting of a white woman... it doesn't matter if Cleopatra was born in Africa. It matters what her heritage was, and IIRC the "racist Greeks" of the conquering armies didn't officially intermarry with the local populace during their 300 years.
Suggesting that having 300 years worth of ancestors being born on the continent makes one a native Egyptian, is as inaccurate as saying descendants of the Pilgrims who came to America on the Mayflower are "Native Americans".
Or, as David Niven once said (?) speaking of his own ancestory... just because the cat has kittens in the oven, you don't call them biscuits.
Congrats, vas2009.... I think we are rows 5 & 6, a few weeks later.
So Marina Sirtis should play the part?I'm a light skinned toned African American.
Many would describe my complexion the same way.
I know native Greeks darker than I am.
I'm just sayin'.
Might be some Irish folks darker than you too.
Just saying.
One of the definitions of “native” is “a person born in a particular place or country.” I was born on the North American continent. That makes me as much a native American as someone whose ancestors lived here five thousand years ago.
And yes, Cleopatra was definitely NOT black, nor would she have looked Semitic. She was the last Egyptian ruler of the Ptolemaic dynasty, which was founded by one of Alexander's generals, meaning she was ethnically Greek (or Macedonian, which is the same thing).
In any case, this modern obsession with “ethnically correct” casting is a bit silly. If an actor can be convincing in a role, that's all that should matter.
Agree scotpens - I was over the modern concept of "ethnically correct casting" before it began. Who cares about the colour of an actors skin, hair eyes or whatever if they have the ability to play the role (unless colour is integral to the plot in someway).
The theatre has always tended much more towards colour blind casting than Film or TV.
In the UK we've had the RSC Henry V with a black actor playing Henry and no one really cared. As long as the performance is good - that's what matters.
I saw Antony & Cleopatra with Patrick Stewart & Harriet Walter (fantastic actress) and it was very good though it's definitely worth reading up on the plot as I wouldn't say it's one of Shakespeare's most accesible plays.
Interesting to hear it's not often staged in the US - I'd say it was relatively popular here in the UK. Not a first rank like Hamlet, Lear etc but quite often staged - Helen Mirren & Judi Dench have both played the part in the past.
In the UK we've had the RSC Henry V with a black actor playing Henry and no one really cared. As long as the performance is good - that's what matters.
I saw Antony & Cleopatra with Patrick Stewart & Harriet Walter (fantastic actress) and it was very good though it's definitely worth reading up on the plot as I wouldn't say it's one of Shakespeare's most accesible plays.
Interesting to hear it's not often staged in the US - I'd say it was relatively popular here in the UK. Not a first rank like Hamlet, Lear etc but quite often staged - Helen Mirren & Judi Dench have both played the part in the past.
Othello, for example, would need to be played by a dark skinned person while Iago would need to be played by a light skinned actor because that's an integral part of the plot.
yes - that's one example
Why not?So Marina Sirtis should play the part?I'm a light skinned toned African American.
Many would describe my complexion the same way.
I know native Greeks darker than I am.
I'm just sayin'.
Might be some Irish folks darker than you too.
Just saying.
There very well might be.......but Kate Mulgrew isn't one of them.
..and what!?
The last white actor of note to play Othello in blackface was Sir Laurence Olivier in his 1964 film, and he took flak for it even back then. Interestingly, Patrick Stewart played Othello in a stage production where all the OTHER actors were black! He called it a "photo-negative" version of the play.
Like Samantha Mumba, f'rinstance?So Marina Sirtis should play the part?
Might be some Irish folks darker than you too.
Just saying.
Cleopatra's grandmother was a Parthian (Iraqi) princess. I don't buy this crap that some want to believe that she was black given her family history. But, I very much suspect she wasn't lilly white either.
If I had to make a guess based on her known genetic pool she was probably looked like a cross between what we know today as Arabs and Europeans.
I find it hilarious that people are complaining about Mulgrew being too white to play Cleopatra, but nobody is complaining about her co-star being too black to play Antony. 
And yes... actors of all ethnicities have been playing all kind of Shakespearean roles. There have been black Hamlets and a black Henry V and so on. Actors' ethnicity has never mattered in theatre. Do you think that a theatre in, say, Japan, would go looking for European actors if they are to stage Hamlet or Macbeth? There are few exceptions where ethnicity does matter, as Othello, since it is a part of the plot and important for characterization.
And yes... actors of all ethnicities have been playing all kind of Shakespearean roles. There have been black Hamlets and a black Henry V and so on. Actors' ethnicity has never mattered in theatre. Do you think that a theatre in, say, Japan, would go looking for European actors if they are to stage Hamlet or Macbeth? There are few exceptions where ethnicity does matter, as Othello, since it is a part of the plot and important for characterization.
As for Hamlet, he is supposed to have said something about "there is something rotten in the state of Denmark".
Which was probably true since there were no refrigerators back in those years.
I dont know what we ever did to him, but when you put it that way I'm sure you're right. Sorry, I have nothing to add to the general discussion here, but that one was too funny to pass considering that I'm...well Danish.
In the interview where Kate was asled what she wanted to convey in a movie re: Janeway, there also was a blurb on Cleopatra which I rather like.
Actually, no Kate. You don't.
See you in October.
http://www.totallykate.com/interv/may10int.html
Actually, no Kate. You don't.
See you in October.
http://www.totallykate.com/interv/may10int.html
