Mudd's Women: Kirk’s Quarters - Window?
- Thread starter Methuselah Flint
- Start date
Camera angles were the main consideration, for sure. But I'm also sure I heard Matt Jefferies say in a video somewhere that you'd never put the doorway right at the C.O.'s back. It's not a big issue, anyway. He was saying that years after the fact.
Timo is correct in suggesting the bridge is not a sound ergonomic design. When the ship rocks in battle, you could break both kneecaps on the railing as you flip into the well for a spectacular face plant. And on the calmest day, Spock could get an epic backache from leaning over his hooded viewer.
Or see the interior sets and exterior of the Addams Family (1964-66) mansion, or Collingwood in Dark Shadows (1966-1972) etc. etc. In some contemporary shows there are still problems fitting the interior sets inside the exteriors.
You could say the same about all the sets, though.
Even the infamous off-centre Bridge was likely only that way because it made for easier framing! In all likelihood a "real" Enterprise Bridge would have the single entrance at the rear of the room, just like an aircraft cockpit (and having the extra benefit of allowing the captain easy visual access to all the stations). Yet in every recreation, cutaway and blueprint the Bridge appears in the classic offset position. Sometimes, things on screen are just as they appear after all, despite all logic to the contrary.
But if you squint hard enough, everything fits - in which case, why worry at all?
Well, one of my ambitions is to create duplicates of a number of fiction movie and television settings. So figuring out their layout is desirable. Thus I worry about such details.
The turbo lifts can travel horizontally as well as vertically. So In my head canon the external cylinder at the aft end of the bridge housing is the vertical shaft for the turbolift, which then travels sideways a short distance to the turbolift door.
Whenever the bridge was redesigned in the TOS movies the horizontal path of the turbolift was shortened or lengthened so the door would be in the right position.
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The wall facing consoles are excellent if the intent was for crewmen to focus on their individual stations without distraction. A full body pivot isn't necessary to speak to the captain in real life, so long as he was listening to your report. However, this makes for pretty boring television.
As do I!
I still intend to complete my set-accurate deckplans one of these days. Perhaps 2020 shall be the year...In any case, it's clear that many other fans hold our viewpoint at differing levels of importance, so its only fair to acknowledge that.
I'm certainly not going down the "no true Trekkie" route!
This certainly solves the issue with the offset doors, but is there a practical reason for such a design? A simple continuation of this would be to have a vertical exit for the turbolift which goes down and then reconnects to the main shaft. Such a setup would also allow an easy replenishment of turbolift cars which is exactly what we see on many episodes (the unusual circumstances of The Naked Time being the natural exception)
A simple security foyer would alleviate all these situations! I know, not good television...
That's what I figured too. If someone came out of the turbolift waving a gun, Kirk's got at least peripheral vision and a sporting chance.
They came close with The Brady Bunch house recently on HGTV, but still not a 100% fit.
Me three.As do I!
In any case, it's clear that many other fans hold our viewpoint at differing levels of importance, so its only fair to acknowledge that.
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...This certainly solves the issue with the offset doors, but is there a practical reason for such a design? A simple continuation of this would be to have a vertical exit for the turbolift which goes down and then reconnects to the main shaft. Such a setup would also allow an easy replenishment of turbolift cars which is exactly what we see on many episodes (the unusual circumstances of The Naked Time being the natural exception)...
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A practical reason for the sideways branch to the door would be if that branch continued beyond the door and there were one or more turbolift cars waiting in that space. And there could be a symmetrical horizontal branch on the other side of the vertical shaft with more waiting cars for the convenience of the persons on the bridge.
It is commonly supposed that the bridge sections of Constitution class ships are detachable so they can be quick;y removed and replaced.
Thus the vertical shaft should be in the same place in every design of bridge module. And if each bridge module has the horizontal shafts both extending about, say, 90 degrees from the vertical shaft, it can be a relatively minor modification to put the door on either the right or the left side, or to put in two doors instead of only one door.
I believe that the bridge designs of the Enterprise and the Enterprise A differ a lot between the various TOS movies. Phil Farrand in The Nitpicker's Guide for Classic Trekkers (1994) mentioned that the location of the door(s) for the turbolift changed in various movies, and thought that it would be a lot of work to move the shaft around between movies.
I think that Ex Astris Scientia also discussed the changing designs of the Enterprise(s) in the TOS movies.
I couldn't find a discussion there, but here is a link to a gallery of images of the bridge in different movies: http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/gallery/bridges1.htm
To avoid moving the shaft around through several decks between movies or between different ships of the same class, there are two possibilities:
One) the actual vertical shaft is always in the same position, and the bridge module can be rotated so that wherever the turbolift door is in the bridge will be right at the vertical shaft. Thus the position of the turbolift door can be changed relatively easily. That works with a perfectly circular bridge module.
Or:
Two) the actual vertical shaft is always in the same position. There are horizontal branches of the shaft traveling partway around the outside of the bridge (but inside the bridge module). Thus it is a relatively simple matter to rearrange the workstations and the door(s) to the turbolift. There is no need to rotate the entire bridge module and so the bridge module can be oval instead of perfectly circular.
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True, but that's a lot of wasted horizontal space nonetheless.
There's also no confirmation that the nubbin at the back of the bridge is the top of the main turboshaft; it could be a refuelling port, an airlock or the subspace antenna for all we know. And if (as you suggest) the dome is large enough to encompass the lift as well, then the top of the turboshaft can be anywhere around the perimeter without protruding. In fact, if we bring TAS into the mix where the secondary turbolift entrance is on the portside of the the ship as well, then this is a strong indicator that the core turblift shaft system is on the portside of the Enterprise. Just a quirk of design, really.
The fact that there is ever a delay for multiple turbolift cars (Naked Time, Alternative Factor, Battlefield) would also be evidence against "spare" turbolift cars stacked horizontally, ready to deploy
Indeed!
I think that might have been one of my earliest instances of noticing the weird structural oddities of the Enterprise.
The refit-Ent never changed its turbolift door locations of course, but the Ent-A had them different in films 4, 5 & 6. All this can be solved however by the vertical turboshafts entering at exactly port and starboard to the main bridge (albeit on the deck below) and running in a semicircle to connect with whatever exit points the bridge module of the week happens to have.
Nobody's peripheral vision goes back anywhere near that far.
Fixed that for you. Only 5 & 6.
At the climax of "Battlefield," when Bele chases Lokai off the bridge, there's only a split second between the turbolift doors closing behind Lokai and partially opening for Bele.
Lokai should still be in that same car when the door partially re-opens for Bele, and yet Bele doesn't just keep going and grab him. I think that was intended to imply that Lokai's car whisked him away in a flash, and the next car was there and ready for Bele instantly.
But that's crazy. The passenger would be killed by acceleration trauma (or by slamming into the roof of the car) if it shot down the shaft that fast. And we always see Kirk's elevator rides with the slow moving wall-mounted motion indicator. So I think it was a staging error. Or maybe it was cut together too fast in the editing room because story pacing was an issue they cared about more than physical believability.
Inertial dampeners regularly keep the crew from turning into paste, so why not in the turbolifts?
On the old turboshaft chestnut, a provision for extensive turbolift action at the top vertex of the ship sounds like a good idea in general. The infamous knob could be a direct connector to starbase turbonetworks, bringing key people directly to where they so often need to be. Dedicating space around the bridge for turbolift "cab ranks" would also be prudent. And if these things double as lifepods, ST:B style, having them on stock right next to the command center makes additional sense: no need to dedicate any extra acreage of the bridge walls to emergency exits when the turbosystem door can do efficient double duty there.
I have no problem with the lightning-fast turbolift action in "Let That Be". It need not be wholly standard: the two clowns are controlling the ship with their thoughts, perhaps forcing it to do tricks it normally doesn't have the guts to pull off, such as warp 10 and rapid lift shuffling. And soon thereafter, the thought control is apparently again used to cut the lift chase short, forcing both parties to resort to running.
Exposing the Bridge with the top placement doesn't seem too damning, all things considered. Failing to surround the bridge with oft-needed support assets is worse. Sure, rapid turbolifts would provide access to a Chart Room or a Ready Room on Deck 2, or to the supposed Admiral's Quarters implied in "The Enterprise Incident". But why not have all those on Deck 1, as on the Voyager? Many of the Eaves bridge structures are extensive, part of a spine or whatever, rather than these tiny knobs jutting up from the surroundings. Many of the interior sets, from TNG on at least, have made good use of Deck 1. Yet Kirk favors this cut-off minimum facility for some reason. Perhaps his lean-and-mean approach forces the fancy aft pimple to protrude when a more sensible bridge choice would have that feature smoothly contained and not bothering the audience.
Timo Saloniemi
I have no problem with the lightning-fast turbolift action in "Let That Be". It need not be wholly standard: the two clowns are controlling the ship with their thoughts, perhaps forcing it to do tricks it normally doesn't have the guts to pull off, such as warp 10 and rapid lift shuffling. And soon thereafter, the thought control is apparently again used to cut the lift chase short, forcing both parties to resort to running.
Exposing the Bridge with the top placement doesn't seem too damning, all things considered. Failing to surround the bridge with oft-needed support assets is worse. Sure, rapid turbolifts would provide access to a Chart Room or a Ready Room on Deck 2, or to the supposed Admiral's Quarters implied in "The Enterprise Incident". But why not have all those on Deck 1, as on the Voyager? Many of the Eaves bridge structures are extensive, part of a spine or whatever, rather than these tiny knobs jutting up from the surroundings. Many of the interior sets, from TNG on at least, have made good use of Deck 1. Yet Kirk favors this cut-off minimum facility for some reason. Perhaps his lean-and-mean approach forces the fancy aft pimple to protrude when a more sensible bridge choice would have that feature smoothly contained and not bothering the audience.
Timo Saloniemi
Since all the other Starships looked the same, I doubt Kirk had any input in the design of the bridge shape or size; he took what he got and glad of it.
I guess so. Still wouldn't put it past some influential individual making choices that reflected his or her "deep expertise" and ending up with esoteric details diverging from the general Fleet ideas, or from common sense...
As for looking the same, it's interesting to note the variation in the R version of "Ultimate Computer" as well as the notes on Eaves wanting to customize his Shepards. Signs of older ships slowly diversifying due to random repairs, or of deliberate modifying for reasons X, Y and Z?
Timo Saloniemi
As for looking the same, it's interesting to note the variation in the R version of "Ultimate Computer" as well as the notes on Eaves wanting to customize his Shepards. Signs of older ships slowly diversifying due to random repairs, or of deliberate modifying for reasons X, Y and Z?
Timo Saloniemi
Incorrectly fixed!
My point was that the turbolift doors in 4, 5 & 6 all had different placements to each other in those films, disregarding what had come before
Ah, I misapprehended your point. Sorry.
Even with inertial dampening?
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