MU timeline according to Shatner

[Emperor-Tiberius]

Well, that MU explanation came first, and I love it for what it is.

I understand its not canon, and I respect that. But seemingly no one cares to give a damn for the Shatnerverse explanation because of, surprise-surprise, Shatner.

 

[Dayton Ward]

^ Well, I love Shatner, warts and all. As you said, the book's explanation(s) have been overridden by on-screen canon. Such is life.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

There's nothing good enough in the Reeves-Stevens/Shatner version to favor it over the canonical version of the Mirror "First Contact" shown in "Star Trek: Enterprise."

Anyway, the Trek Multiverse only works if it's like DC Multiverse Hypertime.

 

[Christopher]

^^That's up to you. I choose to see the Shatnerverse as its own distinct universe.

Yeah, because its ideas about the creation of the Mirror Universe are so terrible, God forbid anyone taking preference to this over ENT's "brilliant" version.

Uhhh... what? Ease off there. I wasn't making a value judgment, simply acknowledging that the continuities are different. Different isn't better or worse, just different. IDIC, remember?

 

[captcalhoun]

well, if you wanna go by 'it came first, so i prefer it'...

The Empire was born in the aftermath of the Earth-Romulan Wars which Earth lost and the Romulans occupied Earth and after man overthrew the Romulans, became like the Nazis post-WWI, being fascist and violent and 'it won't happen here, again' style thugs.

cuz that's what was in 'The Mirror Universe Saga' comic and predates Shitner's novels. *razzz**razzz*

 

[EJA]

It's not so much that I prefer Shatner's explanation to the IaMD one. I just don't like to ignore the canon material, hence my trying to reconcile them. Personally, if the Terran Empire has to have come about differently from how Shatner said, that's fine with me. Just so long as the general storyline of the books isn't damaged too much.

 

[EJA]

BTW, what did people think of Shatner's characterisation of Kirk's MU counterpart in his novels? There's a bit in "Preserver" where Tiberius tells Kirk that when he became emperor, he knew that Spock would betray him....but if that was the case, why didn't Tiberius just use the Tantalus field to dispose of Spock before he became a threat, or failing that, just have him executed? Tiberius is a sensible guy; if he knew he was in any danger, he would take steps at the earliest opportunity. What gives?

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

It's not so much that I prefer Shatner's explanation to the IaMD one. I just don't like to ignore the canon material, hence my trying to reconcile them. Personally, if the Terran Empire has to have come about differently from how Shatner said, that's fine with me. Just so long as the general storyline of the books isn't damaged too much.

Well, you can explain the difference, by saying that neither Spocks had the proper information to determine the schism between the two universes, thus their hurried conclusion presented in Shatnverse.

Do that, and ignore that chapter in PRESERVER with Cochrane, and you're cool.

However, I do ignore canon when it comes to ENT, and I refer to Shatneverse's MU explanation for my PC.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Me, I see all of the variant MU's as just that--variant. I figure that there are as many MU's as their are primary universes, and TNG's Parallels establised that there are a lot.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Me, I see all of the variant MU's as just that--variant. I figure that there are as many MU's as their are primary universes, and TNG's Parallels establised that there are a lot.

Yep, and it was the only way to reconcile Pocket's great "Dark Mirror" and DC Comics' "Mirror Universe Saga" story arc, and esp. after DS9's canonical "Crossover" turned up. I enjoyed all three stories and they were all so different.

 

[JeremyW]

^ Yeah, but it's not as though you're biased or anything

And you're not, eh? It's not some writing team got a chance to work with the writer of "In A Mirror, Darkly" and create its sequel...oh what the heck was that book called? Something involving Hoshi Sato as a gold painted temptress and whatnot....oh yeah! "Age Of The Empress".....well, I don't remember the Golden Hoshi per se, but you never know....

Who were those writers again? LOL.......

And for people who would prefer Shatner's explanation for the MU divergence...well, smile in the fact that IaMD uses the FC scene at all...when I first watched it, I said to myself, "Hey, it's almost like Preserver, but not quite..." Then again, I said the same thing about "Regeneration" as well, but not to the same degree. But yeah, when one thinks about the Mirror Universe (at least when I do), it makes more sense to think of it as another Roman Empire that lasted for centuries, although in my youth, I did accept the First Contact scenario and Spock's explanation as valid too.

 

[Sci]

^ Yeah, but it's not as though you're biased or anything

And you're not, eh? It's not some writing team got a chance to work with the writer of "In A Mirror, Darkly" and create its sequel...oh what the heck was that book called? Something involving Hoshi Sato as a gold painted temptress and whatnot....oh yeah! "Age Of The Empress".....well, I don't remember the Golden Hoshi per se, but you never know....

Who were those writers again? LOL.......<SNIP>

But yeah, when one thinks about the Mirror Universe (at least when I do), it makes more sense to think of it as another Roman Empire that lasted for centuries, although in my youth, I did accept the First Contact scenario and Spock's explanation as valid too.

You're going to an awful lot of effort here to appear jaded and cynical and old and wisened over something that really doesn't matter all that much. And why the presumption that because he wrote a story about the ENT version of the Mirror Universe, Dayton must automatically be biased in favor of it instead of the Shatnerverse?

 

[Dayton Ward]

And you're not, eh? It's not some writing team got a chance to work with the writer of "In A Mirror, Darkly" and create its sequel...oh what the heck was that book called? Something involving Hoshi Sato as a gold painted temptress and whatnot....oh yeah! "Age Of The Empress".....well, I don't remember the Golden Hoshi per se, but you never know....

Who were those writers again? LOL.......

Feel free to read my next post on the subject.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Just remember though guys that the Mirror Universe is a parallel universe so the events that are known to happen in our universe not necessarily happened in the Mirror Universe. I could imagine the Battle of Wolf 359 being a major engagement between the Terran Resistance and the Alliance with the Resistance loosing a significant portion of their fleet and having to retreat into the Badlands in response.

Who says the Praxis explosion happened in the Reeves-Stevens Mirror Universe or any incarnation of the MU? It was a fundamental event within our own universe that led to the current Federation-Klingon peace treaty at Khitomer. Maybe in the MU Praxis was a meeting point for the Klingons and Cardassians by Tiberius...the Bajorans not entering the picture until initiation day of 2328 (our universe's Occupation Day).

As far as the trilogy its self goes I quite like it...there are parts that I don't like of course but overall its a satisfying return to the Mirror Universe. I remember feeling a sense of awe when Tiberius shows Picard the devastated Earth during the transfer sequence.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Maybe in the MU Praxis was a meeting point for the Klingons and Cardassians by Tiberius...the Bajorans not entering the picture until initiation day of 2328 (our universe's Occupation Day).

Didn't the occupation of Bajor happen at the same time in both universes? In the RU, it was the Cardassians; the MU's version replaced that with the Terran Empire (MU Kira said that they had been "under Terran occupation for decades").

 

[JeremyW]

^ Yeah, but it's not as though you're biased or anything

And you're not, eh? It's not some writing team got a chance to work with the writer of "In A Mirror, Darkly" and create its sequel...oh what the heck was that book called? Something involving Hoshi Sato as a gold painted temptress and whatnot....oh yeah! "Age Of The Empress".....well, I don't remember the Golden Hoshi per se, but you never know....

Who were those writers again? LOL.......<SNIP>

But yeah, when one thinks about the Mirror Universe (at least when I do), it makes more sense to think of it as another Roman Empire that lasted for centuries, although in my youth, I did accept the First Contact scenario and Spock's explanation as valid too.

You're going to an awful lot of effort here to appear jaded and cynical and old and wisened over something that really doesn't matter all that much. And why the presumption that because he wrote a story about the ENT version of the Mirror Universe, Dayton must automatically be biased in favor of it instead of the Shatnerverse?

It was a joke... It was meant to be sarcastic, not to be taken seriously... but apparently that's not at all how it landed. My apologies. It was a joke, referring to the poster using Emperor Tiberius as a handle, and suggesting a bias towards that storyline...the timing of it was ironic, so I decided to pounce a bit...but the old saying goes, if you have to explain a joke, then it probably wasn't all that funny to begin with anyways.

 

[SiddFinch1]

well, if you wanna go by 'it came first, so i prefer it'...

The Empire was born in the aftermath of the Earth-Romulan Wars which Earth lost and the Romulans occupied Earth and after man overthrew the Romulans, became like the Nazis post-WWI, being fascist and violent and 'it won't happen here, again' style thugs.

cuz that's what was in 'The Mirror Universe Saga' comic and predates Shitner's novels. *razzz**razzz*

I liked that version as well as Dark Mirror and Shatners. DS9 started off ok with it but I think it got out of hand. I like the idea they are all splits of the mirror universe

 

[JD]

What was Dark Mirror's version?

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Duane posits in "Dark Mirror" that the Mirror Universe was always rather perverse from our POV, rather than "diverging" at some fixed point.

For example, Picard reads a bit of MU Shakespeare and discovers the bard to have been much more enthusiastic about blood and vengeance and a little lighter on the romance than in "our Universe."

I like that, as part of a novel; it would be a bit slippery to communicate in a TV episode (although the altered "Star Trek Enterprise" credits for the Mirror Universe episodes effectively suggested something of the kind and we don't know that the divergence was in Cochrane shooting the Vulcans).

 

[Dayton Ward]

^ I always took IAMD's opening credits to mean that they meant for the MU to always have been "that way," and there was no true point of divergence. After all, it's not like our Cochrane and everybody else had guns under their jackets and just decided not to shoot the Vulcans.