Mr. Reed and Section-31-An Observation

[Joel_Kirk]

I still need to see Demons and Terra Prime, but I wonder what happened with the storyline of Reed working in Section-31 before he was an ENT crewmember...

There wasn't any real closure in the Klingon/Augment storyline, other than Reed turning off a monitor so he won't have to talk or look into the face of his S-31 contact...

It does bring up some ideas, and what occurred after those 10 years when the ENT has fully returned to Earth...

With Julian Bashir, he had Sisko's help in reeling in Sloan; however, with all the things going on, Archer wasn't aware of Section-31, IIRC...

 

[ChristopherPike]

Like most stuff introduced in Season 4, lots to build on but no time left in which to do it sadly.

I would quite liked to have seen another Klingon 2-3 episode arc in Season 5, with some political scheming on the Klingon Homeworld. Some signs of that augment virus beginning to change those infected. Sure, Phlox prevented much beyond Stage 1 of the virus... so no increased strength but what about increased ambition? That could go some way to explaining how smooth headed Klingons become a dominant ruling class for the next century.

In DS9 "Once More Unto the Breach", we see some resentment surfacing between Martok and Kor (an Original Series Klingon) along these sort of Imperial Houses and underclass divisionary lines.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

^^

That idea sounds like what occurred in the novel, 'Forged in Fire' with the smooth-headed Klingons being looked down in that society; I vaguely remember another novel tackling the same idea...but it escapes me.

 

[Bones2]

I can't remember the exact details of the Augment virus thing, but I've had an idea that the smoothies could be a persecuated minority, until one of them introduces the virus into all of Qo'nos' atmosphere. Or something. Some madman.

Yeah...I'm no writer.

 

[The Castellan]

I'd love to see some smooth head Klingons in TNG time.
In my fics, I have such a character, though he lives as a sort of soldier of fortune/smeggler.

Anyhow, I wonder if Section 31 made the reserve activation clause that McCoy was a victim during the V'ger incident. Since Section 31 does not care about due process, rules, or ethics, it would not surpise me.

Always hated Section 31, and always will.

 

[StarshipDefiant]

There was no real closure per se, but in the episodes, at the end of the final one, Reed more or less told them to frak off. There was a later hint in this, and other episodes that Reed wasn't going to be allowed to walk away, and after they had to do a favor for him, he was in their reigns again and owed them a favor.

 

[Voyagerian]

Yeah, Malcolm would no doubt have to have at least needed to fend them off again..especially if he found himself going back hat in hand for a favor in an emergency...makes me wonder also if he got the chance to serve Jon beyond TATV. My fanfic idea is, yes. Reed expressed a hope I believe that maybe Archer would have another ship...he's been very loyal to him-the 31 incident aside.Wasn't he implying in telling Archer how he was recruited as a younger officer, that he more or less got pulled into that world, not necessarily had this burning desire to be a part of 'something bigger than himself', INW?But given his penchant for loyalty, I think under other conditions, he would have gone headlong into 31, and become a stalwart operative, a 'lifer'...however long the average might be for such a person.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

I'd love to see some smooth head Klingons in TNG time.
In my fics, I have such a character, though he lives as a sort of soldier of fortune/smeggler.

Anyhow, I wonder if Section 31 made the reserve activation clause that McCoy was a victim during the V'ger incident. Since Section 31 does not care about due process, rules, or ethics, it would not surpise me.

Always hated Section 31, and always will.

Since Section 31 was created during the DS9 run, I would have liked to have seen more grey (or is it 'gray') area with this organization.

Like you bring out, they are unlikable.

It would be interesting to see some operatives who DO have some ethics. (Of course, it would be pretty difficult considering the whole point of S-31 is to sometimes be 'the bad guy for the greater good').

There was no real closure per se, but in the episodes, at the end of the final one, Reed more or less told them to frak off. There was a later hint in this, and other episodes that Reed wasn't going to be allowed to walk away, and after they had to do a favor for him, he was in their reigns again and owed them a favor.

Yeah, Malcolm would no doubt have to have at least needed to fend them off again..especially if he found himself going back hat in hand for a favor in an emergency...makes me wonder also if he got the chance to serve Jon beyond TATV. My fanfic idea is, yes. Reed expressed a hope I believe that maybe Archer would have another ship...he's been very loyal to him-the 31 incident aside.Wasn't he implying in telling Archer how he was recruited as a younger officer, that he more or less got pulled into that world, not necessarily had this burning desire to be a part of 'something bigger than himself', INW?But given his penchant for loyalty, I think under other conditions, he would have gone headlong into 31, and become a stalwart operative, a 'lifer'...however long the average might be for such a person.

Interesting thoughts....

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

A big disappointment for me was that Malcolm was an unwilling agent of Section 31. I think it would have been more in keeping with his old school, hyper focused, introverted, militaristic, patriotic personality that he fervently believed in Section 31 and the good he was doing. They missed a great opportunity there, building up our affection for Malcolm and then showing him with that allegiance and having it be such an obvious one in the light of who Malcolm is. A nice grey space that would have been.

 

[Voyagerian]

I have to say that, for me, I'm glad he didn't 'go over to the dark side'... hey, but he did make a good Mirror U. Reed-until, well...never mess with a Gorn. It'd be very against-canon but I wonder hm, what if S31 found out about the MU before 'MM'....okay, that's out there, but they do like their secrets...Archer knew less about them, to have also less an antipathy as Ben S. Can you imagine the flurry of activity at S31 Central, when the first Xindi probe struck Earth?I will get in the spirit of a covert 31 Reed, okay, to say, hmm..what if he was tapped by Harris-and maybe given the immediacy of the threat posed by the weapon upcoming, that Malcolm was willing to set aside his considerable queasiness, and go in with 'The Cause' as 31 saw it here, and was funneling intel back to Earth-though it could take a bit, or even if it could penetrate the Expanse...not unlike Michael Jonas secretly giving the Kazon the 411 here and there...

 

[Joel_Kirk]

I have to say that, for me, I'm glad he didn't 'go over to the dark side'... hey, but he did make a good Mirror U. Reed-until, well...never mess with a Gorn. It'd be very against-canon but I wonder hm, what if S31 found out about the MU before 'MM'....okay, that's out there, but they do like their secrets...Archer knew less about them, to have also less an antipathy as Ben S. Can you imagine the flurry of activity at S31 Central, when the first Xindi probe struck Earth?I will get in the spirit of a covert 31 Reed, okay, to say, hmm..what if he was tapped by Harris-and maybe given the immediacy of the threat posed by the weapon upcoming, that Malcolm was willing to set aside his considerable queasiness, and go in with 'The Cause' as 31 saw it here, and was funneling intel back to Earth-though it could take a bit, or even if it could penetrate the Expanse...not unlike Michael Jonas secretly giving the Kazon the 411 here and there...

I can see that happening.

There are a couple of spy shows...i.e. La Femme Nikita, that have organizations who claimed they are working for the 'greater good' but turn out to be questionable....

Malcolm might have joined thinking S-31 was something great to be a part of....

 

[Rush Limborg]

I'd love to see some smooth head Klingons in TNG time.
In my fics, I have such a character, though he lives as a sort of soldier of fortune/smeggler.

Anyhow, I wonder if Section 31 made the reserve activation clause that McCoy was a victim during the V'ger incident. Since Section 31 does not care about due process, rules, or ethics, it would not surpise me.

Always hated Section 31, and always will.

Since Section 31 was created during the DS9 run, I would have liked to have seen more grey (or is it 'gray') area with this organization.

Like you bring out, they are unlikable.

It would be interesting to see some operatives who DO have some ethics. (Of course, it would be pretty difficult considering the whole point of S-31 is to sometimes be 'the bad guy for the greater good').

I agree. Section 31 was always painted in a highly negative light--however, Sloan's speech in "Inquisition" actually sounds pretty legit--he speaks of having saved lives, etc.

The problem, of course, was how our heroes are always portrayed as seeing them.

Despite the obvious fact that 31 is supposed to be the epitome of "shades of grey", it's always portrayed--in the books, and DS9, as bad, no matter what.

BTW...to answer the OP, Section 31 does appear in "Demons" and "Terra Prime".

I don't want to really spoil anything, but...in there, Harris helps Archer and Co. out, giving them important intel needed to take out the villain.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

^^

Yeah, I saw Harris in Demons....

Pretty interesting...

 

[Skywalker]

I wish they'd come up with the idea of Reed being a Section 31 operative from the very beginning. It would have been cool to see Reed reporting Enterprise's findings back to the Section (until he was inevitably caught, of course).

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I wish they'd come up with the idea of Reed being a Section 31 operative from the very beginning. It would have been cool to see Reed reporting Enterprise's findings back to the Section (until he was inevitably caught, of course).

It could be this whole subplot only we the viewers were aware of!

 

[The Castellan]

It would be interesting to see some operatives who DO have some ethics. (Of course, it would be pretty difficult considering the whole point of S-31 is to sometimes be 'the bad guy for the greater good').

And watch them get JFK'ed in the end.

I don't want to really spoil anything, but...in there, Harris helps Archer and Co. out, giving them important intel needed to take out the villain.

Yea, most likely he was more interested in saving section 31's wide behind, and his own. I dunno why, but I would not be surprised if some of Gorkon's assassins were in section 31. I would not be surprised if they'd stoop that low.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

It would be interesting to see some operatives who DO have some ethics. (Of course, it would be pretty difficult considering the whole point of S-31 is to sometimes be 'the bad guy for the greater good').

And watch them get JFK'ed in the end.

I don't want to really spoil anything, but...in there, Harris helps Archer and Co. out, giving them important intel needed to take out the villain.

Yea, most likely he was more interested in saving section 31's wide behind, and his own. I dunno why, but I would not be surprised if some of Gorkon's assassins were in section 31. I would not be surprised if they'd stoop that low.

A Section 31 trilogy expanding on the organization--not the series we got that affected the Trek regulars--would be nice. Where we see varying views going on.

I do agree with you that they probably had something to do with Gorkon's assassination.

I just finished with Terra Prime, and I wonder did that organization have a hand in things? (That includes Kelby, Travis' ex, etc...)

Hmmm...

 

[Rush Limborg]

^I'd LOVE the idea of a Section 31 series--TV or film.

Could be Trek's version of 24....

Now, about the Gorkon thing--what would be the motive for this? Surely Gorkon's peace initiative would be beneficial, as it deals with a threat to the Federation?

 

[Voyagerian]

You could still have a sympathetic character in such a series...say, either a veteran who has seen way too much, and begins to question how far he and his organization have gone, who perhaps puts himself on the line-his very life-by either taking actions that may to some extent contravene some tasks done, or even take into confidence someone outside the organization...or even have him paired with a new recruit, all ablaze with enthusiasm...only to be exposed to the true realities of 'what they do', and himself ask, 'Was this in fact the right path for me to take'...and maybe these two try to work their own way of acheiving ends...thoughts?Eh, just tossing some stuff out here...Now, a certain other STE character has gotten themselves very in thick with 31 in the novels...albeit they did so with eyes wide open, and ever wary, while admitting to themself the necessity of some of 31's work...and Malcolm knows, as of the previous STE novel, all about it, as do Archer and T'Pol and Phlox...the writers could pull Malcolm more into that scenario, but of course that's just my own little notion, and I have yet to read 'Raptor's Wing'....

 

[Rush Limborg]

^I was thinking about a rookie whom Sloan (of DS9, Bashir's uneasy-ally/nemesis) would take under his wing--and train. She'd be pretty enthusiastic and ready to please--but when the realities of what they have to do hit her, she's shook up, and Sloan tries to help her recover. We'd see Sloan's human side, and...

Hmm. Maybe I've revealed too much.