motive of probe's "attack"

[Captrek]

Why did the probe start vaporizing the Earth’s oceans in TVH?

OK, it was a probe, it did what it was programmed to. What is the thinking behind the program, “Try to reestablish contact with the humpbacks, and if the humpbacks aren’t there, destroy the ecosystem”? Revenge?

 

[Mr Silver]

For all we know the neutralisation of the starships and space stations was some kind of automated defence (that ceased function when the probe left). I think that the probe vaporising the oceans was probably it's idea of a search for the whales.

The Cetacean Probe doesn't really make much sense in-universe, but it gives them a reason for going back in time. TVH is a lighthearted movie and whilst I'm the sort of person who likes a bit more of an explanation for what exactly things like the probe are supposed to be in movies, I'm content to just accept it as a McGuffin and nothing else.

 

[Captrek]

Justifying the McGuffins is one of the things boards like this exist for, no?

I too am content to accept it as a McGuffin. I have loved the movie for 25 years, and as far as I can recall have never given this question any thought before now. It doesn’t affect my opinion or enjoyment of the film one bit.

But, having asked the question, I’d enjoy seeing some good fanwanks.

 

[Mr Silver]

Well, I suppose that you could speculate that the probe, having realised that there were no whales on the planet decided to get rid of the oceans. I guess the probe might have seen the oceans as the whales home and decided that since they no longer lived there that the oceans didn't serve a purpose.

Maybe it was pissed off too? Perhaps the probe did some research with Starfleet's computers and found that the whales were extinct due to the Humans. So it thought that it was fitting that the humans should also be extinct.

Thats all very well, but its dependant on the probe actually being an intelligence and not just a "probe" in the classical sense. It was more than likely an automated system designed by a similar aquatic race to seek out distant ancestors.

 

[UssGlenn]

The President said the probe was vaporizing the oceans, Spock inferred from that that the message was directed at the oceans. I think the vaporization was either an accidental or unavoidable side effect of a signal that could travel through a vacuum yet cause sound waves upon contact with air and water.

 

[Captrek]

Thats all very well, but its dependant on the probe actually being an intelligence and not just a "probe" in the classical sense.

The probe was able to converse with the whales and learn enough from them to leave and reboot Saratoga on the way out, which indicates at least some degree of intelligence. Perhaps not consciousness, but sophisticated programming. If the “probe” itself is not consciousness, then it didn’t have a motive, but whoever programmed it did.

The President said the probe was vaporizing the oceans, Spock inferred from that that the message was directed at the oceans. I think the vaporization was either an accidental or unavoidable side effect of a signal that could travel through a vacuum yet cause sound waves upon contact with air and water.

But whoever created it was surely aware of the damage it would cause, no? Why would somebody send a probe that will destroy the planet’s ecosystem if it fails to find humpbacks?

A fanwank occurs to me. The probe doesn’t do any catastrophic damage. It stops before that point is reached. We credit that to the whales, but maybe the probe was programmed to search aggressively for the humpbacks—with the vaporization being an unavoidable side effect, as you suggest—but stop before causing catastrophic damage. That would make sense. It would mean the planet was never in any serious danger, but nobody could have known that.

 

[General_Phoenix]

In the novel Probe, the Borg tried to assimilate the probe but were unsuccessful, however the probes memory was damaged in the process... maybe that could explain it a bit.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

^ When in doubt, blame the Borg. V'ger was a product of the Borg too, if you remember from various conjecture.

I'm thinking the probe didn't "reboot" the Saratoga (and other ships & bases) so much, but the effect that caused & prolonged the shutdowns was no longer there.

Incompatible technologies. Imagine if the Borg (or anyone else for that matter) had the ability to turn your starships off. That would leave an undamaged ship for the taking.

 

[Captrek]

Rule 47: Wherever there is space for a fanwank, there is a Borg fanwank.

 

[Uxi]

I thought the probe was deliberately vaporizing the ocean to sterilize the planet or something like that.

 

[malchya]

(Get the pitchforks and torches, boys, this guy's askin' to be lynched!)

I HATE this bloody movie. The Trek films have been a roller coaster ride, some good, some bad, a couple excellent and a couple that suck like black hole powered super Hoovers! And I have to put TVH in the last listed category. I've never understood its popularity.

Sloppy writing, slipshod direction, poor SFX, student level cinematography and perhaps the worst performance by a guest star in Star Trek's history combine to make this one the most cringe worthy of them all. Its an insult to the intelligence of the casual viewer, much less the dedicated Star Trek fan. I think the idea for the story came to Nimoy after one too many martini's and a screening of Fern Gully!

So what motivates the probe's attack on Earth? Maybe it read the bloody script and decided that any species capable of such tripe should be well steamed and served up with a nice lemon butter sauce....

 

[sonak]

I don't think it's supposed to be a deliberate attack, just a side-effect of attempting to direct its communications toward the oceans.

 

[Shatinator]

(Get the pitchforks and torches, boys, this guy's askin' to be lynched!)

I HATE this bloody movie. The Trek films have been a roller coaster ride, some good, some bad, a couple excellent and a couple that suck like black hole powered super Hoovers! And I have to put TVH in the last listed category. I've never understood its popularity.

Sloppy writing, slipshod direction, poor SFX, student level cinematography and perhaps the worst performance by a guest star in Star Trek's history combine to make this one the most cringe worthy of them all. Its an insult to the intelligence of the casual viewer, much less the dedicated Star Trek fan. I think the idea for the story came to Nimoy after one too many martini's and a screening of Fern Gully!

So what motivates the probe's attack on Earth? Maybe it read the bloody script and decided that any species capable of such tripe should be well steamed and served up with a nice lemon butter sauce....

Well, Ensign your not shy with your opinions are you.

Lets take a look shall we, this was the 4th film of many to come. The 1st (TMP) was not a critical success but made a lot of $$, the 2nd (TWK) had the best of both worlds praise by critics & fans a like and lots of income. The 3rd (TS4S) was deemed eventually as a 'moderate' success that came under budget. And then their is the 4th (TVH), which was destined to become the most successful film of the franchise up to that time, and indeed went "mainstream".
It was a 'good-feel' movie, the general public loved it, their was enough nods to character growth & continuity that the fan-base (at that time) loved it. It was a win-win.

Sloppy writing-I see no strong evidence of this, the writers (Meyer, Bennett, Kirks & Nimoy) told an adventurous fish-out-of-water story with an ecological angle.

Slipshod direction-that criticism is a mystery: the crew return home, learn of the crisis, travel to solve crisis, build allies where need and save the "day". The direction seems clear to me. Of course they could of had a direct Court Marshall film as was once intended, maybe with Denny Crane for the defense.

Poor SFX- Really? By ILM, turn on a copy ST: 5 and watch those SFX and then re-visit that thought.

Student level cinetography- not clear if you are refering to Nimoy's direction or how the film was framed. I though Nimoy assembled the peices quite well and had a balanced approch to story and characters. As for the latter, their is an argument to be made that this was a "small" film and framed in that manner (no sweeping landscapes or romatic impresstions of the golden gate bridge; etc). However the moderate success of the previous film would make the limited budget neccesitate such restrictions, leading to a small film approach and focus on "ideas" & "characters".

Worst performance by a guest star in Star Trek's history - If we are talking of all films and not just up to this point, I would definitely suggest Tom Hardy (ST 10) of even the usually great F. Murry Abraham (ST 9). The role of Gillian Taylor, was made to be likeable, again in conjunction with that feel good mood, and as the advocate for the subject on hand (i.e. the Whales). She is perfect for what this task calls for.

I find nothing so needing of cringe from this film, it was an inventive and thought-provoking if some what of a humbling approach to mans place in the universe.
This was not insulting to the casual viewer/trek fan, clearly since it resonated so with many critics and audiances alike. And generally was well liked and appreciated by the majority of fans.

The idea for the story came to Nimoy after one too many martini's and a screening of Fern Gully!
The only thing I can reasonably possibly say to this is the maintaining of our biosphere and our ecology is a noble, ethical and wise endeavor, that not only protects our planet, the creatures that exist on it great and small, but clearly also protects US,...from extinction.

Now, why did the probe act in the manner it did. The short answer is I don't know, but perhaps it wasn't evaporating the H2O, but absorbing it somehow/for some reason. I don't think it was bent on destroying humanity it just was ignoring humanity and focused on searching for the whales or an empirical reason on why contact was lost (i.e. an archeological dig this time in the oceans)


The
S H A T I N A T O R

 

[Therin of Andor]

The novelization does a little extrapolation on the Probe's motives for its actions. Worth a read.

 

[Maurice]

I think the idea for the story came to Nimoy after one too many martini's and a screening of Fern Gully!

As Ferngully was released in 1992 that would be a time travel trick all its own.

 

[Rulius]

If I may, it's court martial..

 

[malchya]

I think the idea for the story came to Nimoy after one too many martini's and a screening of Fern Gully!

As Ferngully was released in 1992 that would be a time travel trick all its own.

Yet another example of the Star Trek franchise using time travel to the detriment of the story.

Seriously, though, to answer the Shatinator (cool handle on so many levels, by the way):

Sloppy writing: The way the characters are amused by playing fast and loose with the timeline is an example. This had serious dramatic potential, but was written off for laughs. Yes, I know they were striving for a comedic air, not a dramatic one. Doesn't forgive clear violation of common sense.

Slipshod Direction: I wasn't commenting on the story arc. I meant Nimoy's actual direction of the film. It looks as if it had been directed by a first year film student at a midwest junior college! I should know, I was once one.

Poor SFX: They were better than the FX in V. Okay. They were. They were also better than the FX in "Mars wants our Women." Doesn't mean they were good. Just that they were better than even poorer examples. I remember reading, I think it was in Starlog magazine, how hard they worked on the Bird of Prey splashdown, how exacting and taxing the shot had been. The final product looked like someone tossed an AMT model into a swimming pool on a foggy morning. It just wasn't good.

(The effects of the whales were, however, excellent.)

Student Level Cinematography: This one feels like it was filmed during a high school field trip. The camera work was just lacking any spark what so ever. Bland, bland and bland.

Worst Performance by a Guest Star: I honestly feel that Catherine Hicks mailed in one of the most lackluster performances in the history of film. Maybe it wasn't entirely her fault as direction impacts heavily upon an actor's performance quality and I've already registered my opinion of Nimoy's direction. But Galleon Tailfin () was simply unbelievable as a human being outside of the film to me.

I'm used to plot holes in Trek. They don't have to be there, but they usually are. There were just too many of them to swallow comfortably in this film. In so far as the eco friendly message of the film is concerned, oh boy yeah! Nimoy really took on a controversial one here! I mean, how many riots break out every day when "save the whales" and "kill all the bloody freakin' giant fish like mammals" protesters run into one another in front of your local city hall? I offer for consideration that Nimoy picked a safe, though perhaps heart felt, eco friendly story base. How much better could it have been if, instead, they had explored the questions of fossil fuel usage or the future of nuclear power or disease or so on and so forth.

The film was amusing. I'll give it that. But that don't make it good film. It certainly doesn't make it good Star Trek. I honestly hate this bloody thing. I found it written to the absolute lowest common denominator, directed as if by afterthought and so poorly filmed that I actually had to check and make sure it hadn't been done as a student project.

If you like it, great! Your opinion. I don't. Great! My opinion.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Rule 47: Wherever there is space for a fanwank, there is a Borg fanwank.

the sequel novel Probe says the Borg attacked the probe millenia ago, causing severe damage to it's "crystalline memory", explaining it's bizarre actions.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Rule 47: Wherever there is space for a fanwank, there is a Borg fanwank.

the sequel novel Probe says the Borg attacked the probe millenia ago, causing severe damage to it's "crystalline memory", explaining it's bizarre actions.

So the Borg made it go all wonky. How do we know it even got the right planet?

 

[Maurice]

In defense of ILM's effects. Water and fire are the two hardest things to work with in miniature for a lot of reasons, and it's always a lot easier to matte things into space than into a natural environment (the Bird of Prey over the whaling ship). Once you getto the typical Trek stuff of space ships and matte paintings, the film's effects are certainly up to par with films like II, III and VI.

The scene with Chekov being interrogated wasn't to show him as stupid, but to show how the 20th century vernacular confused him. Another "fish out of water" joke.