If the Borg are sympathetic (in canon) then so is NOMAD. Poor baby had an accident and just wanted daddy to make it all better.
I think we may be going a tad too far here. What's next, the Doomsday Machine?
Most Sympathetic Antagonist
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If the Borg are sympathetic (in canon) then so is NOMAD. Poor baby had an accident and just wanted daddy to make it all better.
I think we may be going a tad too far here. What's next, the Doomsday Machine?
No, I don't. I see your point, you do specify as individuals, but, except for a few like Picard and Hugh and Seven, they don't matter much as individuals. There is also the Borg queen--is she sympathetic? You seem to be saying the average Borg drone lurching toward someone is "sympathetic," but they don't come off that way for most people--they come off as hideous near-zombies, almost cenobites.
I just think it's a stretch to call the Borg sympathetic, they just don't come to mind (at least for me) when considering this question, any more than, say, the Hirogen, who could be said to be sympathetic because their race is dying out due to the Hunt dispersing their population, or the Vidians, who are all victims of the phage, or the Changelings, who took power over the Gamma Quadrant because they were persecuted for so long, or the murderous clown in Voyager's The Thaw, who was just deathly terrified of winking out of existence, etc. Everyone has a reason or reasons for what they are and some of those reasons might even be heart-wrenching, but that doesn't automatically make them sympathetic.
In my estimation the Borg drones who once existed as individuals before being forcibly enslaved to a will they couldn't fight against, and have subsequently been forced to commit atrocities including doing what was done to them to other people, merit some sympathy.
That's not even including the fact that the assimilation process is probably not exactly entirely painless.
Then there's the drones who were born into the Collective. Whether they deserve more sympathy because they never had a chance of being individuals, or less sympathy because at least they don't know what they're missing out on, is an exercise I'll leave to the reader.
YMMV.
That's not even including the fact that the assimilation process is probably not exactly entirely painless.
Then there's the drones who were born into the Collective. Whether they deserve more sympathy because they never had a chance of being individuals, or less sympathy because at least they don't know what they're missing out on, is an exercise I'll leave to the reader.
YMMV.
Moriarty comes to mind for me.
Because when you look at him, its not hard to imagine him turning into someone like Khan. Both geniuses essentially left exiled in seemingly peaceful conditions soon turning horrific and with nothing to do but wonder how they were forgotten about by the Enterprise captain that left them there. With Singh, we saw exactly what that turned him into, saw how it blinded him to everything but a naked desire to lash out at a galaxy that had tossed him aside.
With all that's happened to Moriarty (granted sentience only to be informed its conditional, encountering terrifying moments of experience without substance, told that his life was important when no bothered to even check up on him) one wouldn't be surprised if he wanted revenge on those he believed wronged him, grand power to demonstrate his worth, or something even worse. Yet what is it that he seeks?
Freedom. The right to live, explore the universe, and improve himself; the very highest goals that Picard himself flaunts as the achievements of 24th century humans. Even his worst act of taking the ship hostage, while very dubious, is one rooted in a distrust of Picard and company's supposed promises to him, which to be fair he does have some reason to be wary of. Heck, if the Enterprise wasn't near a collapsing star, his actions would be of little threat at all. Were the crew capable of giving him the holographic freedom he wants, he probably wouldn't hesitate in calling them friends.
Because when you look at him, its not hard to imagine him turning into someone like Khan. Both geniuses essentially left exiled in seemingly peaceful conditions soon turning horrific and with nothing to do but wonder how they were forgotten about by the Enterprise captain that left them there. With Singh, we saw exactly what that turned him into, saw how it blinded him to everything but a naked desire to lash out at a galaxy that had tossed him aside.
With all that's happened to Moriarty (granted sentience only to be informed its conditional, encountering terrifying moments of experience without substance, told that his life was important when no bothered to even check up on him) one wouldn't be surprised if he wanted revenge on those he believed wronged him, grand power to demonstrate his worth, or something even worse. Yet what is it that he seeks?
Freedom. The right to live, explore the universe, and improve himself; the very highest goals that Picard himself flaunts as the achievements of 24th century humans. Even his worst act of taking the ship hostage, while very dubious, is one rooted in a distrust of Picard and company's supposed promises to him, which to be fair he does have some reason to be wary of. Heck, if the Enterprise wasn't near a collapsing star, his actions would be of little threat at all. Were the crew capable of giving him the holographic freedom he wants, he probably wouldn't hesitate in calling them friends.
The people who were assimilated and the drones they become are two different individuals. Sympathizing with the assimilated people is not sympathizing with the Borg.
I'm surprised by the amount of Dukat answers. This is a sociopath who lords over a race out of a feeling of superiority and entitlement and manipulates defenseless woman into being concubines. Ziyal's death only makes me sympathize with Ziyal.
I'm surprised by the amount of Dukat answers. This is a sociopath who lords over a race out of a feeling of superiority and entitlement and manipulates defenseless woman into being concubines. Ziyal's death only makes me sympathize with Ziyal.
Dukat is a Magnificent Bastard per the trope, and for a long time he was at least a patriot and worthy of some respect for that, but sympathetic he ain't.
Yeah, Dukat as a whole, is a very unsympathetic character (he was basically Space-Hitler), but in Seasons 5-6 he is made somewhat sympathetic because it almost seems he is redeemable, as if he was doing the wrong thing for the right reason by making Cardassia strong again, after the Klingon invasion, and later joining with the Dominion. And then of course there is Ziyal. How could you not sympathize with Dukat right after Ziyal is killed is pretty difficult to do. The guy is a broken man who loses his sanity at that point.
And then he slips into utter evil and becomes beyond sympathy and redemption.
And then he slips into utter evil and becomes beyond sympathy and redemption.
Dukat is good at acting like a different man than he is. He portrayed himself as a redeemable man for a while in the middle seasons, but he never was.
The Romulan Commander from Balance of Terror has some serious blood on his hands in that episode the way he was blasting bases. Saying he was just doing his job doesn't wash that away.
The Romulan Commander from Enterprise Incident was more of a Cold Warrior type and by virtue of her tryst with Spock it's easier to be sympathetic of her.
There are also plenty of antagonists who were really just misunderstood, like the cloud creature in Metamorphosis or the rock creatures in Devil in the Dark.
The Romulan Commander from Enterprise Incident was more of a Cold Warrior type and by virtue of her tryst with Spock it's easier to be sympathetic of her.
There are also plenty of antagonists who were really just misunderstood, like the cloud creature in Metamorphosis or the rock creatures in Devil in the Dark.
Well, I didn't say he was. I agree with you that he wasn't. He had too many war crimes for that to ever happen. It's more accurate to say Dukat wasn't evil 100% of the time. Maybe 99.99% of the time
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The one thing he ever did you can even argue wasn't based in evil motives was spare Ziyal. Even when he was falling on the side of the protagonists he was doing it to put himself in the position to dominate others.
The difficulty for me here is that in most cases St doesn't have a clear protagonist/antagonist relationship. There are so many variations, so many shades of grey, so many permutations of relationships between the regular and non regular casts. There are also many entities which are so far removed from humanity that they would almost be better described as forces of nature - V'ger, whale probe, Tin Man, etc. Certainly they are not rivals or enemies that could be fought or communicated with in a conventional sense.
Even where the outside party is human or humanoid usually there is less an antagonist as a differing point of view and in many cases resolution comes through compromise, conciliation and diplomacy.
However, if we are to limit this to out and out opponents as such then I'll throw in the Macquis in general, although not necessarily as personified in Eddington.
Even where the outside party is human or humanoid usually there is less an antagonist as a differing point of view and in many cases resolution comes through compromise, conciliation and diplomacy.
However, if we are to limit this to out and out opponents as such then I'll throw in the Macquis in general, although not necessarily as personified in Eddington.
I'm scared of how many people find Dukhat sympathetic. He's fascinating and interesting, but I don't find him at all sympathetic. He may have grieved for Ziyal, but he did consider killing her to protect his own reputation, and I think somewhat regretted letting her live after he paid the price at becoming an outcast.
The female Romulan Commander I find sympathetic. She was honorable and loyal to her own people. She could even be seen as a hero betrayed by Spock's treacherous seduction, and that her downfall was her love for him makes her sympathetic.
Mara the Klingon first officer and science officer I also found sympathetic. Her speech about the Klingon's aggressive expansion being a necessity to prevent the starvation of the race makes the whole Klingon race a little more sympathetic to me.
T'Pring I find oddly sympathetic. She was willing to get an innocent man killed to get her own way, but she was trapped in a life and marriage she didn't want, with no sane way to choose how to live her own life because of the highly sexist and repressive Vulcan marriage laws. She did something abhorrent but I can understand why she did it. I think people often overlook how oppressed she was by Vulcan's ancient sexism and she's somewhat unfairly condemned.
It's interesting that my choices were all strong, intelligent capable women in TOS era - and worth pointing out that the most powerful women in TOS were all cast in somewhat villainous roles. They could have a female Romulan commander and Klingon first officer and science officer while outside of Number One in flashbacks we didn't see any Starfleet female officers of equal rank and importance. I do root for strong women.
The female Romulan Commander I find sympathetic. She was honorable and loyal to her own people. She could even be seen as a hero betrayed by Spock's treacherous seduction, and that her downfall was her love for him makes her sympathetic.
Mara the Klingon first officer and science officer I also found sympathetic. Her speech about the Klingon's aggressive expansion being a necessity to prevent the starvation of the race makes the whole Klingon race a little more sympathetic to me.
T'Pring I find oddly sympathetic. She was willing to get an innocent man killed to get her own way, but she was trapped in a life and marriage she didn't want, with no sane way to choose how to live her own life because of the highly sexist and repressive Vulcan marriage laws. She did something abhorrent but I can understand why she did it. I think people often overlook how oppressed she was by Vulcan's ancient sexism and she's somewhat unfairly condemned.
It's interesting that my choices were all strong, intelligent capable women in TOS era - and worth pointing out that the most powerful women in TOS were all cast in somewhat villainous roles. They could have a female Romulan commander and Klingon first officer and science officer while outside of Number One in flashbacks we didn't see any Starfleet female officers of equal rank and importance. I do root for strong women.
When he's on the floor with Sisko's baseball after her death, overcome with grief, I felt so sorry for him. In Indiscretion, where he's sitting on the ground holding Tora Naprem's earring that he'd found after going through the Bajoran graves near the wrecked ship, I felt sorry for him then. Even Kira felt bad for him at that moment, too.
That's who first popped into my head, too.
As Garak himself says in "Our Man Bashir", "a real intelligence agent HAS no ego." Simply having some VERY different moral standards than most of the main characters doesn't make him an antagonist. Most of the time, they were on the same side (with the arguable exceptions of "The Die Is Cast", "Broken Link", and "Empok Nor").
That's debatable. Although he tried to hide his true nature from the crew, he never intentionally tried to harm them.
Weyoun 6 was never an antagonist.
I've heard a few people say Armus from "Skin of Evil" elicited some pity.
Ultimately, I don't think there were too many pitiable antagonists in Star Trek. If you're looking for that, I would suggest the series "Cold Case". In many episodes, the doer is often sympathetic, sometimes as much as the victim (or even more so). Heck, even the serial killer that John Billingsley played in a couple of episodes was revealed to have had something horrible happen to him as a child.
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